SPEAKER_06: 0:01

Yeah, expectations I think is very important. You know, sharing, letting one another know early, very early. And I and I see a couple. The wife loves the beach. They've been going to the beach 27 years. The husband got to this age and said, you know what? I never like the beach. I went to the beach because you like the beach. You know, sitting out in the sun all day, carrying all the shit out to the beach. She just wants to read her book at the beach. He's like, nah, I want to do shit. I don't want to just lay in the sea.

SPEAKER_04: 0:34

Welcome back to the pod. Ladies, do you want to know how we think? Sometimes, if you simply ask, you will get an answer. Myself and Dr. Dwayne C. Wright. We are taking questions today, and they are being moderated by none other than my oldest daughter, Nai, who is herself seeking answers. We are taking questions about relationships, about life, about certain philosophies, and I am very grateful that you took the time to send in those questions. As you know, we do not monetize this podcast. In order for us to keep it going, I need you to go to the show notes and click on the phrase support the show. That will take you directly to a link where you can donate as little as$3 a month to help us with editing, pre-production, and post-production. This way we can keep bringing you quality conversations as we've done for well over a year and about 60 episodes. Thank you. This was a fun one. If you've ever listened to our show, you'll know that I tend to be a bit more forthcoming with my responses and my opinions. Dr. Wright is a bit more tempered, so it's the perfect balance to give you the answers you're looking for. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

He said, Men seem more willing to forgive infidelity because usually they're just not talking about it. What does real forgiveness look like?

SPEAKER_04: 2:32

Men seem more willing to forgive infidelity.

SPEAKER_02: 2:36

We had an argument.

SPEAKER_04: 2:38

No, we know we don't in the DMs.

SPEAKER_02: 2:40

What he was more so saying is that more men will forgive it and just not say that it happened and work through it through their relationship. Whereas women get cheated on and it's like, I'm a part of the group of being cheated on now. Like I'm gonna tell all my friends and my family and this and that. Like it's just it's not gonna be the same thing if it's the woman that slips up. Usually it's gonna be within their relationship unless it is continuous. Whereas women, it can be one thing and um it's brought to a larger scale.

SPEAKER_04: 3:10

That question is split in two ways. I think one is are you even willing to let people know or let it be known? And it's like that Mario song, if you're creeping, please don't let it show. Because we're way too embarrassed to let anybody know that my girl ever cheated on me because it's just like the most embarrassing thing. So yeah, we don't want to advertise it. Right. But forgiveness, I think it's tougher for men to forgive when it comes to infidelity. I couldn't, I couldn't move on. Shit. Nope.

SPEAKER_02: 3:40

He's like shaking his head.

SPEAKER_06: 3:41

He's like, absolutely not. Nah, I think um the same. Men men are going to advertise it.

SPEAKER_01: 3:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 3:48

I do therapy work, so um a lot of times I think men, whether it's ego or just the thought of you know your significant other, you know, cheating on you, violates a lot of trust. And how do you rebuild that? Right. Like I said, there's sometimes the double standards where women may be more forgiving and allow it, but they're definitely going to let others know. And then it's a constant reminder. Because then you got not only to deal with your wife, you gotta repair trust with her friends, family.

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

All these relationships.

SPEAKER_06: 4:22

Things keep coming up, but why are you still with him? And anything that you do or that he may do is under close scrutiny.

SPEAKER_02: 4:30

I agree. Well, this young man had uh because we were going back and forth, I was like, maybe you need to reword your question. So here's the next one. After cheating, how long is it reasonable for a woman to need reassurance, transparency, or accountability? Like, how long do I have to be in the doghouse before we stop bringing this up?

SPEAKER_06: 4:49

If he cheated, you said how long, man.

SPEAKER_02: 4:52

How long should he be on punishment before it's like are we calling it or what?

SPEAKER_06: 4:56

It just depends on the relationship. Yeah. And um because if it's too um much surveillance and and because sometimes I I have clients and you think it makes me think of a client that I have, and it's like the goalpost cheap keeps moving. And he, you know, goes to church, he um shares his location, and it's like always something, and then she's you know, making up new things. Oh, you need to, you know, court me more, it's just more always something, yeah. Yeah, he's like, I thought I'd done all these different things, and so I think it just depends, and then it's also the healing that the person who got cheated on needs to get some counseling or or do some work, maybe new couples work. I think it's be very important.

SPEAKER_01: 5:42

I agree.

SPEAKER_06: 5:42

Because if there's no accountability on both ends, then it's not gonna work because she may be holding all the purse strings, like you gotta do this, you gotta do this, but she doesn't check herself uh so or have accountability for her actions.

SPEAKER_04: 5:56

Here's what I want to add. Well, let's start with the man in the relationship. They both have to make a decision after the incident. And the decision is, for example, for the guy, the decision is am I willing to do what it takes? And what it takes might take years. It's the little things that will trigger her and remind her of things. It could be the smallest little incident, and there's always that little shadow of a doubt in her mind that this thing can, you know, resurface. So you could give all the assurances in the world, it could happen again. You know, she has to make a decision. At some point, I have to know when enough is enough. He's done enough, he's proven everything, he's giving me no reason, you know, the sharing of locations, like you said. To me, that's normal in any relationship. Like, I don't even think twice about it. You don't have to ask me. I need to know where you are, you know where I am up, but not because you're watching over me, but it's just it's I don't know, it's a different conversation. But to me, that's just like totally normal. Now, to the guy who cheated, the real question is how long are you willing to put up with this shit? Which sounds no seriously, which sounds like you have the nerve. Yeah, it sounds like you have the gall to be the one who wants to put up with it. But here's what I mean by that you have to make a decision, like, look, I'll do everything that it takes, and you have to keep reassuring her, but you have to already have in your mind, like, at some point enough is enough. So you're as jacked up as it sounds, you might be doing her a favor. In fact, if you go, look, there's nothing more that I can do, yeah. You know, I know I messed up, you can't apologize enough, but you can't live like this, and I can't live, I can't live like this. So we both need counseling, we need both need to figure this out. But he has to understand that she's always gonna have that doubt. I try, I try and try and try, but at some point I have to be like, you know, you you got it, man. Enough is enough. You win.

SPEAKER_02: 7:42

I can't because every little I'm gonna have a lot of triggers. I already know that, so I wouldn't even want to put myself through that. It just any little thing, I'd be like, uh, I know what you're about to go do. Bless him. And he probably wouldn't even be, but I just can't. I know myself, so I wouldn't even try to do the let's go date more, or let me see your phone, or can I have your password? That just feels like a new job that I have because my partner was unfaithful.

SPEAKER_01: 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:04

And I'd rather not. So that's my boundary though, and I communicate that early. So I think that's another thing is that everybody just like falls in love so quick, and nobody really talks about like these are my hard no's. I will not like negotiate on these. This is what it is, this is how far I'm willing to take it. If this boundary is crossed, no matter what, I'm out of here. Maybe start communicating that in the beginning. Men and women. When is it appropriate to introduce kids to someone you're dating seriously, and when is it too soon?

SPEAKER_06: 8:38

Wow. Uh kids are tough. And kids are often quick to adapt to people. And if they get sort of snatched away, and then it's like, who was that? I think you should take your time. Like when you really get serious about possibly, you know, taking things to the next level, I would say introduce to adults, you know, get the feeling about your adult friends, but not even that too early. You know, just making sure you know you and your whether it's your parents or your aunties or whoever, um just be patient in trying to introduce people to your family, but your children you gotta take your time because you don't want to hurt them because kids attach much faster than adults. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:33

I know now that if I would be entering into your relationship, I would have certain conversations, right? I would have these conversations about finance, about emerging finances. I would have conversations about our aspirations individually and as a couple, how we support each other, how we grow. So you know it's like a video game and just levels to everything, right? Just like a tournament in sports. At some point, you're gonna play the best team if you want to win. You're gonna play all these mediocre teams, you're gonna play medium teams, and you're gonna play good teams, and then you gotta play the champ, you know, that I won last year. You're gonna go against, you know, if you want to take that trophy. So it's like this. I we have to keep climbing in the questions and questions and conversations, they get tougher, more real, and more difficult. To me, the very last one is the child conversation, is the introduction of our children. We talk about everything else. So we get serious enough to me where we feel like we've gone through everything. We know where we want to be as a couple, what our goals are. We get to all of this, and we're like, well, now this is it. This is the real, this is the last test. We know everything about us will work, and now we have to see if this works. And if it doesn't work, it's just like, hey, we've gone far enough, we've gone as far as we can take it because this is not gonna work. Everything else about it was great except for this. To me, that's the last thing, you know, is the attachment. I don't have the credentials to speak on this. From my experience, what I will see is not so much that they're attached, it's how they view you, right? Because you introduced them to one person and that didn't work. Well, this you introduced them to somebody else and that didn't work. So they're starting to see you in a different lens, and that's the last conversation. That's the that's the tournament fight right there.

SPEAKER_02: 11:04

I agree.

SPEAKER_06: 11:04

I would say also the parenting style of the partner that you're bringing into your child's life, making sure you and that person have the conversation about parenting styles and yeah, and even their relationship with their parents. You know, what's that like? You know, and then wanted to observe that. So I think you have to do a lot of research and uh observation of them with their parents, if you know that's where the the relationship is going, because that says a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 11:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 11:34

I would stress that point actually.

SPEAKER_04: 11:36

That one's that's really good, you know. So that's that's that's all part of that conversation.

SPEAKER_02: 11:40

Make sure you're asking the little questions with the new partner, because I think people have to go when they when you're in love and you're planning your family and you're having your kids, everybody agrees with everything. It's like you might disagree a little bit on discipline, but then that's about it. You're not really talking about much. But then when you get out of that relationship and now you're co-parenting and then you're trying to date with children, slow down. How do you feel about discipline? How do you feel about what school they're gonna go to? How do you feel about zones? How do you feel about I mean, down to vaccination conversations? Like, I mean everything pickups, extracurricular, how hands-on are you with this? What are your strengths when it comes to homework? Like, have the little conversations but completely spread it out before the children get involved, I would say.

SPEAKER_04: 12:18

100%.

SPEAKER_02: 12:19

Okay, now we're gonna get into the women or mad questions. Why do men feel like they tolerate more bad behavior from women than women tolerate from men?

SPEAKER_04: 12:31

Why do we feel that we tolerate more bad behavior?

SPEAKER_02: 12:34

A lot of these questions came in as like a paragraph and then just throwing a question mark on the end, and so I had to change it to an actual question. And so it came off like this guy said that like men are to constantly tolerating bad behavior, and women just like get a pass on just having all this bad behavior. But then as soon as we mess up, it's like I can throw my two cents.

SPEAKER_04: 12:58

See, the thing is I'd love to want it's in the context of a question. I almost wish I read the whole paragraph because I don't know where that person's coming from. But I will say that I I I think it tends to be true.

SPEAKER_01: 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:08

Because I I and I don't mean bad behavior in terms of like infidelity or something crazy. I'm talking about it.

SPEAKER_02: 13:13

Being able to be physical, being able to be unkind, cursing at them, talking to them any kind of way. Um What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04: 13:20

Like that's because that's some next level shit. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02: 13:22

Physical and well, you know, just like maybe not like punching him right in his face, but like being able to just like push his shoulder, whatever. Like a man can't even playfully really do those things back. He can't just call her out of her name, he can't like be playful in that way. But I and I guess what she's saying is the man finally had had enough and been like, you can do whatever you want because you're a girl, and that's just like you being like tough. But as soon as I'm disrespectful, I'm disrespectful.

SPEAKER_04: 13:49

I find that other than beauty, women, the standards are not lowered, but we have a lot more grace. We give a lot more grace, I should say, when it comes to women. Now, men again, we're you know, visual creatures. The reason we were attracted to you in the very first place is how you looked first because of how we think, and then everything else develops around that. With women, there's that as as well, obviously. You want to be physically attracted to the person, but there's also all these other things and these standards that are almost unrealistic. So we have all these things that we have to hit, and I think maybe that's what this question is, you know, referencing. Like with a woman, you want us to support you, be here for you, be your rock, talk enough, don't talk enough, ask me more questions. You're talking too much, be more sensitive, you're too weak. You have all these things that are happening, and we have to just like juggle all these different things that you're trying to make us into that we were not, we're trying to be for you. But with the woman, I don't want to be crass, but if you can just do the basics, which I'm gonna just skip, but if you can just do the basics and look good and keep yourself up, shit, I'm good. Yeah, it's not a whole lot to it. Be respectful, treat me right. But the reasons that you fell in love, I fell in love with you, you just keep that up. That's it. I'm not expecting more because a friend of mine said it once on this show, and he said it best. He says, Well, it's not his, but he quoted this. He goes, Men meet a woman and he gets with her and hopes he doesn't change. Whereas a woman meets a man, gets with him, and expects him to change. What do you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_06: 15:29

Yeah, I would say that men some sort of tolerate the disrespect and bad behavior more because society has said if men were to respond to things is toxic masculinity, you know, all this assault, language, and and and men being, you know, past masculinity has shaded what we're talking about, well how society views things today. So all those things of women having voice, so we have to have women's voice, voice, voice, voice, voice. Then then I say, well, where does a man uh get to speak up about some of these things? So we're taking these things like it's like past we're paying past dues for what our fathers and forefathers have done. So and we men sometimes take it because society dictates these things. So but but if you have to just say to yourself, you know what, I I'm not going to take this because it's it's disrespectful, and it's taking that responsibility and accountability that we talked about before. So it's like, hey, we have to look at look in the mirror and see what's going on here. You know, you're physically touching, you're in my space, you're calling me out of my name. If I were to do those same things, you wouldn't tolerate it.

SPEAKER_02: 16:51

So I and do it in while it's happening. Correct it then. Gentle parent your partner. Do not wait until you're at your peak, you're at your capacity, you can't take it anymore, and then now you're this emotional man that's just like freaking out and saying all your feelings from the past 90 days. In the moment when you feel disrespected with love, but see, even with that, what you just said right there, did you feel that? That shot. It wasn't meant to be a shot. What I'm saying is that's how it's going to be received. And when a woman, women are not wanting to hear, you always do that. Every time it's like you've been doing this, you've been doing that. Because then it's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04: 17:26

But let me have you understand something real quick. See how you just said that you want us to do X, Y, and Z, but that's just not the way I am. I first of all, I try not to react to everything that you as a woman do. What do you do? I think that I'm above it, I try to get past it, I ignore it, and whatever. I've actually had that exact discussion in my relationship where it's just like, well, why don't you say something? This happened two years ago. I'm just like, I let it go because A, I didn't expect it to reoccur. And B, I was trying to be too big, you know, for this problem. And I was just above it, and I was just like, you know what? And also I'm trying to avoid fights.

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:01

So I don't want to be arguing with you. I don't want to be fighting with you. And you did something, I didn't like it, I just let it go. But then you do it a few more times, and finally I go, hey, I don't like this, and here's why I don't like it. Then I bring up the last time you're like, wow, you didn't say something. That was two years ago. That doesn't matter. Well, it took me a while to get here. And what you just said is more like, well, this is how you should behave and and you should gentle parent right then and there. This is what I mean by the expectations that we have of men versus the expectations that we have of women.

SPEAKER_01: 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:29

Right? Because if a woman doesn't do this, or if she brings it up or she does whatever, I'm not gonna say this is the way you should have handled it. God forbid.

SPEAKER_02: 18:38

Well, I'll say on my side, because I'm spicy and and I I'm developing, I'm working on it. And so I I'll get corrected now where it's like, oh, that was spicy. Let me get out of your way. Sorry. I didn't mean, and then that's when I have to like reflect, like, okay, that was a lot, my bad. I didn't mean to because for me, that would be my one thing, is that I'm just I shoot off. Like, I don't even mean to. It's just sometimes I'll just say something and one thing went over your head and you feel that shot. And it's like, why do you have to say it like that? Like it's not necessary. But I get corrected. It's not like, oh, over time you have been just like verbally abusing me, and that's not what I want because I'm not usually doing it on purpose. But that quick, hey, relax.

SPEAKER_04: 19:19

But if it takes but if it takes him three months or six months to say something because he absorbed all these blows and finally says it, that person's not necessarily being emotional.

SPEAKER_02: 19:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 19:27

That person, you just feel that cup with all the negativity.

SPEAKER_02: 19:30

What I'm saying is the this is how, like you were saying, toxic masculinity, that's how it's usually going to be received, is you're just this overly emotional man, you're freaking out, you're having a tantrum, and now you're wanting to tell me about all the times you felt victimized. And that's not how I'm feeling. What I'm saying is that's usually how it's received. So what I would say is, even if you have to make it playful, this is just advice to the young men. Yeah, wait a minute. I didn't like that. Even if you have to say something silly like that, break them down in a way to where they're like seeing you as a person again and not just as someone that they're fighting with. Yeah. But don't tolerate that bad behavior over time. You're not, do not tolerate things that you'd not be comfortable with because you're hoping that it doesn't reoccur, but you don't know if it would. She was comfortable with it, she did it, and there was no reaction. So it's very likely that it will occur again.

SPEAKER_06: 20:17

Yeah, I would I would just follow up and say that when in any event or when an event occurs, if it's like too much, a timeout of like I need to have a breather and take that space because you don't want to keep responding, and then your reaction might match that person, and it's just gonna escalate. So then I think something that the couple might want to do is have a day that they set aside and say, Hey, we're gonna have a talk about things that might have occurred or just catching up. And hey, on Tuesday, you know, things got a little spicy and that really, you know, hurt my feelings, or I don't expect for you to speak to me that way in front of my mother or whatever it might have been because it's not healthy, and make that day when you guys have those conversations, like this is a safe space to have those type of conversations. Like you said in the beginning, like having those conversations, like this is what we need to have, those boundaries, yeah, communicating early.

SPEAKER_02: 21:13

How have I offended you this week?

SPEAKER_04: 21:15

That would be good. That's a good conversation starter. Yeah, I think boys can say if you've hurt my feelings, up to about the age of eight. I guess past that point, yeah, we get embarrassed and and we get emasculated for saying that. Even with the woman who says it's safe, then you look like a whole bitch when you finally say it because she will look at you and go, What is this? That's what I mean by the double standards, is real in both sides. And this is one of the things that I don't think we have to do.

SPEAKER_02: 21:46

Do men ever feel safe? We I don't I don't like I don't think there is a safe space for that.

SPEAKER_04: 21:51

No, there is, there is, there is, it takes a certain immaturity on both sides, right? It takes a certain woman to give you that safe space. It takes that, it does exist, don't get me wrong. What I'm saying is that the majority of the time you hear that it's okay. We want you to be able to express your emotions. And then when you do, you're viewed as weak and you viewed it. And that's a fear that we have as men. We'd rather say some cool shit like, yo, man, I felt some type of way about this. Yeah. But I'm not gonna say my feelings are you just did it?

SPEAKER_02: 22:19

See, that's how it's like that's how I would say it for me though. That was not nice. That was so nice.

SPEAKER_06: 22:25

You can say that. You can times we try to use language that, you know, as a therapist, try to encourage language that everyone uses. Yeah. Because then it's like, well, I gotta use this masculine tone, like, um, it it hurts my feel scrolled away about it. That's cool. But it's like what she would say is this safe, you know, trying to get into that language or that environment. But it's it's like I get what you're saying about them then weaponizing your emotion or your vulnerability, and later on it's like, oh, you just uh a wuss or a simp or whatever. Yeah. It's like you're just trying to communicate this is how I feel, and this isn't healthy. So I may not want to remain in this relationship because it's not healthy for me. Right. Because then I have to, you know, hide and I have to not really express how I feel, because if I do, then you're you know using it against me.

SPEAKER_02: 23:16

So oh man, okay. This one's funny. Be honest. What are the biggest signs that a man is lying other than noticing right away? She said, be on, don't you sit up here? She doesn't even trust you guys.

SPEAKER_03: 23:32

That's crazy, right? She's asking us and telling us we're already liars. That's true.

SPEAKER_02: 23:37

Be honest. How do you know when a man is lying?

SPEAKER_04: 23:40

You and I had this conversation yesterday. So let me tell you, we are not good when we're lying at follow-up questions. We have not thought that far ahead. So if you want to know, if we're lying, I actually heard this from a comedian, um Ryan Davis, super intellectual guy. Ask follow-up questions. Because I will give you a lie, I'll tell you a lie. But if you give me two follow-up questions, you go, you go two layers deeper, I'm stuck. And then it's just like, oh man, I think we're gonna go this far into it. Like, so then if you want to know, ask follow-up questions. And also, we're not good at remembering the lies. So maybe be patient. Give me like a week and come back to the same question, and it'll be a totally different answer because again, I thought we got past this. So, as far as how you know when a man is lying in in general, other than you have to know your person, you have to know who you're with. You know, Zola knows when I'm lying because she'll ask me, Did you water my plants? And I didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 24:36

You look like five years old.

SPEAKER_04: 24:37

And yeah, as soon as I go, Yeah, she goes, God damn it, you forgot my plants. Totally forgot. So I'm like, well, I just told you I did it. She's like, I'll do it when I get home. Don't worry about it. So it'll be little things I just don't want to go into. But if you start asking these follow-up questions, you'll get your answer really, really quickly. What do you think, Doc?

SPEAKER_06: 24:57

Yeah, follow-up questions are a great, great way to confirm that they're on the wrong path. But also, I would say if you look at their body language, and then sometimes people are, you know, have what do you say, poker face? Science, some scientists say if they uh look up and left, that means that they're lying. Up and left, up and to the left. They look up and to the left and fellas look down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 25:24

Everybody look down when you're lying.

SPEAKER_06: 25:26

Yeah, but that's something that psychologists and and forensic folks look at.

SPEAKER_02: 25:30

Yeah. Okay. This one, if you're in a serious relationship and you're talking about moving forward into your future and taking the next step, how do you handle that when you guys have very different religious beliefs?

SPEAKER_06: 25:44

That's a good one. It just dep again depends on the person and their maturity in their own spirituality. Because sometimes you meet someone and they're Baptist or whatever, and things have to be this way and only this way. If I say, Let's do yoga, well, you know, that's uh age, I mean that's uh Buddha, I mean uh paganism. Yeah, right. That's you know, another religion.

SPEAKER_02: 26:16

I'm like, nah, I just want to go like stretch.

SPEAKER_06: 26:19

Yeah, so people sometimes uh interpret uh different things certain ways. So I would say it just depends on your your partner and your your own spiritual maturity and your partner's spiritual maturity.

SPEAKER_02: 26:31

I think it comes down to when she's like mentioning wanting to like get serious and commit and all of this, I think she's considering children as well. Because how do you do that going into like we love each other and we could do our own things, but now there's kids. So do they come to church with me or do they stay home with you and choose their own and go nowhere the whole time? Like, what do we do?

SPEAKER_04: 26:49

This this is a question from a woman. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 26:52

Because she said that that's like a big thing for her because she is deep in her faith, yes. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_04: 26:57

So Christian, Jesus warrior.

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

I mean Wednesday night Bible studies.

SPEAKER_04: 27:01

The question is, do you need to impose that on me?

SPEAKER_02: 27:04

He's Muslim. Well, we are so they have very, very like they're very dedicated to their place of worship.

SPEAKER_04: 27:12

Again, do you need to impose that on me? And do I need to impose mine on you? I believe what I believe, you believe what you what you believe. Is there a space if you think of it kind of like a van diagram where those two circles intersect and there's a space in the middle? We're still both monotheists, and we may believe in different ways of worshiping, but at the end of the day, we still believe in a God, one God, etc. So there's a there's a place there. I believe that religion has its place in terms of structure, and I think that it helps people in that way. But again, don't try to convince me and try and change my mind. If you're okay with that, if we can move forward in that way and you worship the way you do, and I for example, like if I were to date someone who's just like, listen, you're Bible thumper, you do this, you do Wednesday night, and I'm cool. Go do that on Wednesdays. If you ask me to come once in a while or whatever, maybe I'll go. But you need to understand that if you ask me to speak, a lot of people are not gonna like my logical approach to these discussions. I might ruin your Bible study, I might make it more interesting. So it depends on the vibe. It depends on the vibe, right? So my whole thing is I think that people with different beliefs can totally move together and move forward in a relationship as long as you're not one of those you must believe in what I believe. I need to respect you and you respect me in that sense. But also, it depends on the absolute certainties of that um religion. For example, I couldn't be with a Jehovah's Witness, not because of what you believe. That's not a problem for me. My problem is if you're laying in a hospital bed, I can't give you blood and I can't save your life. Because your religion dictates that I can't do that. And there are certain things that I can't do. So why would I want to move into a relationship where I can even step in and talk to the doctor to save your life because your faith says that I can't. So then we have to have those discussions and say, well, what comes? You see what I mean? Yeah. Like at to what level are we willing to be this crazy dogmatic about it? And to which level are we willing to bend? But by the second and third day, if we're thinking, I like this person, let's really see what we're about, we're gonna dive deep into these conversations, and you gotta be ready for them. Once we realize we are not compatible in that sense, like the example I just gave you, then if we're dating with purpose, then we shouldn't date anymore.

SPEAKER_06: 29:33

Yeah, you mentioned children, and I would suggest that they take the children to both, like she goes to church and then to the um mosque with the husband or whatever, and then just see what the child sort of gravitates towards and allow the child to make that decision. Um, how young though? I would say, you know, let's just expose them, continue continuously expose them and then because like even as they grow up when they're like teenagers, right, right, and then say, okay, what do you what do you like? Or say, I like well, I like going to church because then they might be a part of a ministry or or they like you know certain tenets of Islam, say, hey, let them do that. Uh, because I know like I grew up Catholic, I didn't go to Catholic school, I went to uh C C D classes. So I went to public school, but then went to C C D, got confirmed, and then after that, mom said you can just do what you want. As long as I got confirmed, and she didn't allow me to do whatever. Now there was definitely problems with Catholicism, there's problems with all of them, you know. But I you know so I found you know space that I felt comfortable and practiced from there. But but I and I think that was like third 12 or 13 years old when I that happened. So it's at that choice, it's like, okay, it's cool, Catholic Church, it was 30 minutes, 30, 45 minutes, and you're done, casually dressed, versus you know, going places and like you don't have the proper tire, you're not, you know, save person, all those different things.

SPEAKER_04: 31:08

Where's your Sundays best?

SPEAKER_06: 31:10

Yeah, right, right, right. So um, so I think just exposing the children to both, yeah, and then letting them make a decision. That's a great mindset.

SPEAKER_02: 31:19

I agree. Um, the next question is something, it's gonna be a paragraph, so I'm gonna give you a little bit of information first. Okay, okay, guys, don't judge. My boyfriend and I, when we first started dealing with each other, we were both cheating on our partners with each other, and it was always fun. We were always dating, and he couldn't get enough of me. And now that we have left those people and have gotten into a serious relationship, it feels like he is sick of me. Why was it more fun when I wasn't the girlfriend?

SPEAKER_04: 31:51

Duh. It's exciting for a man, especially if you're not only allowed, but we are both clear on the fact that you're not gonna get me caught. You're not trying to ruin my relationship because you got yours. That's the best cheating in the world. Like that one's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 32:06

Yeah, both call me home and we'll just hang out on the side.

SPEAKER_04: 32:10

Because you're not trying to ruin what I have, and I'm not trying to ruin what you have. We have a great thing on the side. So if people who are prone to have side situations, they are offered something like this, they're gonna choose it every single time because it's still excitement with little risk.

SPEAKER_01: 32:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 32:28

Now that excitement is gone because he's not he's not getting what he used to get anymore. And maybe you were great because you were that excitement, and you now you what is standard and regular.

SPEAKER_06: 32:41

The time when they're cheating on each other or cheating with each other, or whatever it is, that's a a short amount of time that they're together in this in this fun field. You try to do all the things that's right in that time.

SPEAKER_02: 32:55

They don't even know each other.

SPEAKER_06: 32:56

Right. So you can do all those things in that small amount of time. Now you say we're gonna get into this relationship. Now I'm with you all the time. So then those things can be annoying to one another that you didn't think about. It's like, man, this person doesn't clean up, this person doesn't do this, that, and you're like, mm-mm.

SPEAKER_02: 33:15

She might be a nager, now she wants to hang out in public.

SPEAKER_04: 33:17

Do you know if they live together?

SPEAKER_02: 33:19

No, they don't.

SPEAKER_04: 33:20

They do not. So that's not even like they're spending all the time together, but they're spending enough time together. A lot more easy. Now you're my person, I'm your person, and all of that. To your point, I never thought about that because you're right. Now I get to realize that, yeah, this is annoying. I didn't know that. Right. Because I saw your best because I only saw you for a couple hours here and there.

SPEAKER_02: 33:36

You lose them how you got them.

SPEAKER_04: 33:38

Yeah. You lose them how you got them. Yeah. Because now I have to be thinking about, well, you're it's possible. Yeah. Like real life. I'm in, you know, it's it's good for a man to be in a relationship to be thinking, you know, I'll speak from a man's perspective. I know your past situations as far as people you were with. You were faithful, even in the worst situation. Like you had a marriage that didn't work, but the entire time, even though you were miserable, you were faithful in that relationship. And and then when you got out of relationship, you made sure you made a clean break, whether you had closure or not, whatever, and you moved on. And that's something that I know of your character.

SPEAKER_01: 34:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 34:12

Now I know something else of your character. And now this is the the pot calling the kettle black, because I'll it's also true of myself, but I also know that you're capable of cheating.

SPEAKER_01: 34:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 34:22

And it makes for an uneasy type of a lot of times.

SPEAKER_06: 34:30

Like they want this relationship with this person, but it's really not what they want. They want more. And they both probably want more. But then they they're can trying to convince themselves like, oh yeah, I'm trying to hang it up. Like, nah, a cheater is gonna be a cheater. I mean, some people can be foreign, but some folks who like to cheater.

SPEAKER_02: 34:50

I disagree. But hey, there's well, it might be a small percentage, but I think what's weird about this situation, and I guess that's why I threw it in here, is if you guys were okay with being in a relationship, then why not just stay? Do that or just end it with that person and not disrespect them and that commitment that you made to them, and then get into a relationship. Like let them be an ex. Why did it have to be where both of you are stepping out? Just it'd be different if it was just supposed to be something fun, you and your partner broke up, and now y'all are just kind of having fun. But you went from that relationship immediately into another relationship, like you guys are committed to each other and you're coming from like cheating. Like, what was that?

SPEAKER_04: 35:32

I don't know what the percentage of, but there is a small percentage of people who actually cheat, and the person they were cheating with, they end up being with because I was their real person, and they end up with being with that person. It was just like I was lying to myself, and boom, I cheated, and I'm with this new person. Mean, you know, I mean, like I like I didn't want to be in this relationship, and this person on the side, and and and usually it's they're both in relationships. I mean, I've I've heard of that, I've seen it, and then they end up being together and it works. It's usually a bit more than just uh the physical, you know, attraction. There's a whole lot more you observe and watch this person for a long time, sometimes it's years, and and then by the time you get together, it's more like you're able to breathe because finally you're with the person you were meant to be with. But that's extremely rare and that's far and few in between. Not that that makes it right either, because again, you were lying to someone else who put their trust in you.

SPEAKER_01: 36:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 36:22

The real question is I think we talked about this earlier. It's like you need to be honest about and and have a real conversation with this person about is this what we want? You know, we ended up in the situation, but what do you really want out of this? Because with me, he's he's giving you all the signs because we are not good articulators as men. We're not sometimes we just want to spare your feelings. Sometimes we're just not gonna tell you. But maybe he's just like, if he could simply say to her, you know what, this was exciting while we were doing it in secret. Now we're together, I'm realizing there's some things about you that I don't, even though you're a great person, you're wonderful, and I can like you and I could love you from a distance, but I can't really see myself being with you because in that sense I don't find that I'm really truly happy. I hope you understand. How wonderful would it be if people would just be like, that makes sense. Thank you for thank you for telling me, thank you for being honest with me. Let's let's shake hands. Let's shake hands, let's part away, let's part ways. No, but what we expect as men is you're about to blow up.

SPEAKER_01: 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:16

What are you talking about? I don't I don't have to deal with this, so I'm just gonna go and do something else.

SPEAKER_02: 37:20

Yeah, I'm just gonna make you my girlfriend and then I'll just find another. No. Okay. This is all play play.

SPEAKER_06: 37:25

Okay, yeah. Maybe they have an attachment.

SPEAKER_02: 37:28

Sure, yeah. Or maybe being a girlfriend was her condition now that she's single. And so to keep what he already had, I guess, he's just like, yeah, sure, I'll be your boyfriend. That's fine. I was already a boyfriend before, I didn't stop anything.

SPEAKER_04: 37:40

If people understood the power of just being alone, you know, just be alone, grow, figure yourself out.

SPEAKER_02: 37:46

Love you, learn to love you.

SPEAKER_04: 37:48

Yeah, but that sounds lonely. I think when people say that they don't give the instructions that come with that type of advice, you know. We're human. You have men and women with hormones, and sex is a key driver for that. And for the woman, she doesn't want to be to some degree, depending on the woman, she might say, Well, I'm not just having casual sex, I need to be in a relationship. So that could be her standard. Meanwhile, so you enter relationships to have sex, but is that the wisest thing? But then you're having sex with two people in a relationship, so it's like Well, no, I mean, even if you just enter relationships, forget forget cheating. Like let's say you're you just I'm saying sometimes you enter a relationship.

SPEAKER_02: 38:25

Not just for that.

SPEAKER_04: 38:27

I haven't I have someone in my family that got married a bunch of times, but it was simply because she would not sleep with a man until she was married to the man. So every time she got into a relationship, it was they were married several husbands later, like six later, it was simply because you the only reason now your key driver was yes, you like this person, you attracted to this person, but at the end of the day, you had your standards. Your standards in this case worked against you. You entered all into this all these these marriages, they weren't going to serve you at all because you had these standards. With the man, he might be in a relationship because he's trying to have sex because you want to have sex without the relationship. So he's gonna be your boyfriend. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 39:05

That's interesting, though. Okay, but yeah, girl, for me and and to that boy, you guys need to separate and be better humans and develop. I don't think that you guys need to be in relationships. It's no fun being a girlfriend because you have no business being a girlfriend right now.

SPEAKER_04: 39:19

Take your time.

SPEAKER_02: 39:19

Yeah. Um, what's one dating lesson men wish that women learned earlier instead of the hard way? This one's a hard one.

SPEAKER_04: 39:29

I have one. And I've gotten into debates with my wife about this because she calls it lowering the standards. And I disagree. But I do think women need to be more realistic. And it's not lowering, but be more realistic about the standards to which you hold a man. So early on in that, it's not even a relationship, but early on just in the encounter, getting to know each other, you set the bar. Again, I don't like to call it so high because you know, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, you're gonna say it's retarded.

SPEAKER_01: 40:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 40:08

And that's not the case, right? So for instance, you know, I was listening to another another conversation yesterday on the podcast where it's six foot six figures. That's a standard for women. You know, you hear that all the time. You know, six feet tall. I'm not six feet tall. So that takes me out of the of the dating pool for every woman whose standards are six feet six figures. And that's okay. But if a woman says, Well, okay, I'll lower my standards, then I'm like, What do you mean lower your standards? You need to lower your standards to date me. I am the standard. What the hell are you talking about? So that's why that's why I go back and forth with the whole lower standards thing. Um, and I don't like that term in that sense. But what are your expectations of a man? You want to get the perfect man all into one. You're gonna find the man that has the physical attributes. Maybe he's got the income, and all of that is good. And that person may not be the best protector. You know, down a dark alley, something pops off. And you turn around and he's like, come on. And you might find that that person is very protective, but that person is overly protective, and now you can't breathe. So you have to realize that there's going to be, you know, think about you know, a graph that goes up and down, up and down, up and down based on certain things and based on certain things that you're looking for. And you have to realize, you have to accept, hey, I'm gonna take some of the bad stuff, maybe we can work on it together, but I can't expect it all to be linear, like everything's just great, flatlining at the top because he's meeting all these expectations. So you have to, in that sense, it's not lowering your standards, but be realistic about what you can expect out of a man because we're having to lie and juggle and do all these things to pretend that we are these things. We are not right, right? We are not, we are great at certain things. I'm gonna be uh amazing, better than any man you could have wished for at certain things. And I'm gonna be funny, I'm gonna fall short in some other areas, but then again, it's looking in the mirror. Like sometimes I hear this shit, I'm like, nigga, I was gonna say something else, but it's my daughter's here, so I'm gonna but I you are you perfect?

SPEAKER_02: 42:17

That's the only question you ask.

SPEAKER_04: 42:19

You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'm looking at how you take care of you, right? And I'm looking at your aspirations. Are you settled? You could be a homebody and be like, yeah, I want to work from home, that's great. Or I don't have to work at all because you know you can provide, but what are your own goals? So I look at so many different things, and you're not going to hit a 10 out of 10 on most of them. And that's okay. I remember doing things and actually learning to like things that I didn't like or be in a way that I wasn't because I wanted to get with this person and I found out she likes this. And now it's like, I don't like that at all. You know, don't ask me to do that. I'm not interested, or whatever, because but it takes it took me decades.

SPEAKER_00: 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 43:02

Yeah, expectations I think is very important, you know, sharing and letting one another know early, very early. But like you said, we'll do things. And I and I see a couple that the wife loves the beach, and they've been going to the beach 27 years. The husband got to this age and said, you know what? I never like the beach. I went to the beach because you like the beach. And then he's like, I said, what do you like? But then you have to figure out what you like. So many.

SPEAKER_02: 43:31

What is he a mountains guy?

SPEAKER_06: 43:33

Just not the beach. That's why he doesn't want to go to the beach. Yeah, he doesn't be, I mean, uh, you know, sitting out in the sun all day, carrying all the shit out to the beach. She just wants to read her book at the beach. He's like, nah, I want to do shit. I don't want to just lay in the sand or on the on the beach in the sand. That makes sense. So and she was like floored, she's like, but we did so much twenty seven years. For you. And that's what sometimes we get caught up. And not voicing our opinion. You know, just trying to make the happy, happy wife, happy lives. Like, no. Oh, I hate that. I say that.

SPEAKER_02: 44:09

Oh my God, we're having the same conversation as yesterday. It's like deja vu. I'm like, but you're not actually happy, and neither is your wife. Well, your wife may be happy because you're pretending that's what I'm saying. I think that's a good thing. Well, she's happy because she doesn't know.

SPEAKER_06: 44:22

Maybe she's satisfied that she's gonna do her thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 44:25

But he doesn't look happy next to her.

SPEAKER_06: 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 44:27

He's like laying there groaning, waiting for the stuff to get piled back into the basket.

SPEAKER_04: 44:32

The saddest thing, the saddest thing a man can say where you just feel like, oh, that man is resigned to misery, is when a man says, you know, happy wife, happy life. Because I'm in, you know, like it's it I hear it all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 44:45

Whatever makes her happy, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_06: 44:47

Right. So just expressing like what you want, and it's okay. And be ready to hear something that you may not want to hear and be okay with it. It's like, cause man, because sometimes some women early in those dating things, they want or have this expectation, like you guys were mentioning, these lists. Like that shit ain't real.

SPEAKER_01: 45:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 45:07

It's not. So just put the list aside. Get to know that person, spend some time trying to understand that person, digging deep, trying to understand their family life, because like, man, you start to understand their family situation structure. You're like, holy shit, I'm about to get involved with somebody who don't like family. Right. Right. And they talking about they want family. Like, nah, you don't want no family.

SPEAKER_02: 45:32

Next one. How should a woman communicate fear of commitment without pushing that person away?

SPEAKER_06: 45:40

So well, part of it is understanding why you had that fear.

SPEAKER_02: 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 45:44

Is it is it your family history?

SPEAKER_02: 45:46

Are you gonna go dock on me, Robin? No, no, this is not my question.

SPEAKER_04: 45:50

You know what? You know why she said that?

SPEAKER_03: 45:51

Because you did go dock on her and you hit the nail on the head, brother.

SPEAKER_06: 45:55

Go ahead and preach dog. Because that's what it is. It's oftentimes we we may not see what committed relationships look like. Or say, hey, what does that look like? Is this healthy?

SPEAKER_02: 46:06

It could be that.

SPEAKER_06: 46:07

Yeah, so I would say no, like real example.

SPEAKER_02: 46:09

And then I think outside of that is realizing that you were naive before.

SPEAKER_06: 46:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 46:13

And it was to your detriment. So now it's like, hold on.

SPEAKER_06: 46:16

Why are we holding on? Because just hold on. But what's what's it what's that that big pause for? That's what we have to understand.

SPEAKER_02: 46:24

That's what we have to figure out. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06: 46:25

But again, it's it's fear.

SPEAKER_02: 46:26

I think it's usually men that are scared of fear have that fear of commitment. So then when women are scared too, it's like, wait a minute, no, I'm ready. So what are you doing? Why are you you should be ready when I'm ready. All women are ready. Well, most women are ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 46:39

But you know, there's always there's a few that are like, uh-uh.

SPEAKER_02: 46:43

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06: 46:43

Because it's hold tight. Because they they see, you know, parents, they see friends, they see, you know, folks getting cheated on and all those things. Like, nah, I'm not ready to commit to that.

SPEAKER_02: 46:53

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_06: 46:54

Yeah. So I mean, it's the trying to not push someone away is you know, you never know when someone's gonna run or go.

SPEAKER_01: 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 47:04

And it's because sometimes if you're pushy, pushy about the relationship, that might make someone run as well. Exactly. And so it's the double-edged sword, you know, but it's it's just having that constant communication, like this is what you expect, this is what you want. Now, if you're if you want a committed relationship, say, what does that mean to you? Because everybody's definition is different. Yeah, like this is what I see, you know, as far as moving together, getting deeper into this relationship. These are you talk about those those hard nodes and those boundaries. Yeah, like hey, how how now I express that? What do you think about that? And then let's move on. Yeah. So, do you want to commit a relationship? Yeah, I want one, but do I want it right now? Do I want to make sure I have my self financially straight? Yeah or my my uh spiritual self straight. All those things I want to have done, or do we want to do these things together?

SPEAKER_02: 48:03

Okay.

unknown: 48:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:05

Good advice. What about you?

SPEAKER_04: 48:07

I I don't know the how, but I know that it needs to be communicated, and you have to take the risk and understand that you will be, or you might be, pushing this person away.

unknown: 48:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 48:17

But to Doc's point, he hit the nail on the head. The question is, why are you afraid of commitment? What have you seen? What have you lived to make you afraid of commitment? Because I could gain you a bit more points with me in terms of being patient. Because if I understand why you're that way without maybe knowing every single thing about you, then I could be like, all right, I get it. Because you'd be surprised. A person likes you, they're willing to, and they understand some things that's happened in your past that have shaped you, they are totally okay with being patient and giving you a lot more grace in that particular area. But if you're not communicating it, if you're just pushing me away, then first of all, as a man, I have an ego. So who isn't first thing I think I'm thinking about is it's me, it's about me. And then, of course, as a woman, you're gonna get mad and go, it's not always about you. How do you make this about you? Well, it is all I'm thinking is I'm doing something wrong, I'm not doing enough, or whatever it may be. So I'm not thinking of it as fear of commitment. I'm thinking there's something wrong with me. Because what I believe, what I've always believed is everyone wants to be in relationship. So when someone says I don't want to be in relationship, the with you is silent. As a man, I'm going to internalize that and go, she's pushing me away, she's saying she's not ready. But if the right dude came along, oh, she'd be ready. That's the way I'm gonna think about it. So you need to explain to me what's going on with you. And then we work through that because if you do tell me and I understand it, then I'm willing to give you what it takes. I'm gonna give you the time, I'm gonna give you the space, I understand that, oh, she's ready for it. Oh, she's not ready, I should say, but she wants to be in a relationship, but not quite ready. She's working through some things, and I need to support that. What better way to show the kind of person that I am and the kind of husband that I'm going to be at some point than to support you in this on this journey right now as you're going through this? If I'm there. So that's how you do it without pushing the person away.

SPEAKER_02: 50:11

Okay. Do men believe that uh people can genuinely change or that patterns usually repeat?

SPEAKER_06: 50:20

People can change.

SPEAKER_02: 50:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 50:22

But it it takes practice. So you gotta give people grace and time and understanding to get to this new space or this new behavior. Because I've done this thing for the last 20 years or so. It's like, how can I just change just like that? Just give someone some grace and understanding that that they can change.

SPEAKER_02: 50:42

What about you?

SPEAKER_04: 50:44

Yeah, I agree with Doc.

unknown: 50:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 50:46

You know, because I've just watched myself change a whole lot, and sometimes I'm amazed at how far I've come.

SPEAKER_02: 50:53

Okay. Well, what do you think are three major no's or deal breakers for you?

SPEAKER_04: 51:00

Well, the first one's easy, right? We all know it's infidelity. Yeah. So maybe we take that one out.

SPEAKER_02: 51:06

Maybe take that one out. No infidelity or the three others.

SPEAKER_04: 51:09

Yeah, because that one's too easy. I have one that's a major one for me. That's a major, major one for me. And I think it envelops all of the other things that I have. So it really is just the one thing, other than fidelity. I guess even it even includes infidelity. Don't change. So what I met and what I fell in love with, what I pursued, you know, there was courtship. Everything that I did to get you. Why do you think I'm okay with you changing of that? I'm not talking about growth, because I expect you to grow. I expect you to climb, and I support that. What I'm saying is you start changing certain things. Number one, you did not speak to me a certain way. So I don't even need to say be respectful, because when we first met, the reason we I wanted to pursue you and get together is because you spoke with me a certain way, and there was respect in your tone and your voice and the words you chose.

SPEAKER_02: 52:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 52:03

I expect that to continue. You were faithful. I expect that to remain.

SPEAKER_01: 52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 52:08

You looked a certain way. To me, that's one of the big ones. Because again, I think that we're not honest enough as men, because we don't want to come across as jerks or you know, toxic men and all this other stuff. That, because God forbid now you give your feedback on something, you're a toxic dude. So however that works. If I'm in the car and you used to hold my hand when I put my hand on the shifter, you now you sit there and you're on your phone the entire time, why changed? I'm a creature of habit.

SPEAKER_02: 52:36

Don't give me what you can't keep up.

SPEAKER_04: 52:37

If you can't keep it up, don't do it. Because I need to know who you are in the very beginning. Frequency and intimacy in the bedroom is a big one, not for me, for all men. Why do married men always complain about the fact that there's no intimacy? If it was frequent and it's something that you did with that man in the very beginning of the relationship, and you're thinking that's not really who I am. I just want to get with this man. Don't do that. Because then the second you get comfortable in the relationship, then you start showing who you truly are, and once a month is too much for you.

SPEAKER_02: 53:08

And that's there are seasons, right? There's sickness, there's pregnancy, there's all that. We're talking about like regular, everyday. I'm hoping that the audience is you're gonna hit with the what about we're not talking about that guys.

SPEAKER_04: 53:21

And and most of the time, again, if not all the time, we are always speaking in general terms. Right. We're not talking about the exceptions. Right. I refuse to believe that we can't not make an effort to remain in love and keep things exciting. Yes, again, like you said, there are seasons. We're gonna go up and down, and they've got there are times where I'm not even gonna like you. There are times you're not gonna like me, but there's something that was part of the foundation, and we both should make an effort to court each other throughout the entire relationship.

SPEAKER_06: 53:48

Yeah, man, it's it hit a lot, man. You hit a lot, because you mentioned like you don't want someone to change, right? But sometimes, deal with couples, people's love language change. The touch might, as she gets older, her body is changing, hormones change. So we have to keep in mind that we do all change, but sometimes like that might impact our relationship, even like you mentioned, um, frequency of intimacy, and that's intimacy, just touching intimacy. So, because I have clients who decide to have separate bedrooms. Why? Because they want to sleep, they want to have sex, but they want to sleep too. So your CPAP, your snoring impacts my ability to get some sleep. Yeah, so you go over there and sleep, and then when we need to make the business happen, we come here or over there or wherever, but we sleep in separate spaces. So things happen. And and we get older, our bodies change. So we have to keep in mind those things. Because um, you know, my love language, I was acting service, but now mine's changed too. I like words of affirmation. Now my wife's things was words affirmations, and now she likes service. So sometimes things change and switch.

SPEAKER_02: 55:15

I've been stuck in service. I mean, I have not, I've it's been service, and is I think it's gonna stay a service. Okay. I love good acts of service. Help me. Oh, you like to receive what I like to just if uh for instance, I mean, I don't know if this is actually acts of service and we can cut this, but if I am coming home and I have already made dinner, but I'm coming home with more stuff from the store, and then I need to go give the kids a bath, and then I come home and the kids have already eaten, dinner's put away, there the bath is already running, I just need to put them in like to me, that's a lot better than coming home to like a teddy bear and chocolate. Like, I keep it. Also, don't give me a hug if I have to come home and do all of it. I'm still overstimulated, I'm still running. Like, I just hold on for again. Everybody just needs to hold on. And so making my life just a little bit easier, also telling me that I'm the best person in the whole entire world, and you love me so much, and I'm so pretty, and I'm I have to come into this stuff that I still have to do. To me, if you make my load easier, I'm more receptive to all the other love languages, I feel like. So I am more of a receiver of service. Yes, but I'm also that way, I give love in that way, but I think that I'd like to love people how they like to be loved. So even though that's the way that I am, it's not usually received the right way by other people because it's like, yeah, you did that for me, but I would have preferred. And it's like, yeah, that's fine, but I'm always gonna try to make your life easier. That's just the way that I like to be loved and that I love. But I think, yeah, people do change.

SPEAKER_04: 56:45

So I mean, I answered that question by going way off on attention about what I don't like, but it did include everything. So what's your answer to that exact question?

SPEAKER_06: 56:53

You know, what are your no's my hard no's, yeah. Infidelity is, I guess, at the top. We said um You can't use that one. Yeah, because that one goes without saying. I would say for me, man, not having, I guess, respect for the things that I love. Like family. If you don't love family, then I guess that's a hard no for me. Because I love family. I love doing family stuff. A hard no would be not being able to do things that I like to do.

SPEAKER_04: 57:27

There's one we never even talk about as men because we don't think about it until it happens.

SPEAKER_01: 57:32

Physical.

SPEAKER_04: 57:32

Physical abuse.

SPEAKER_01: 57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 57:33

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 57:34

That's an absolute hard no for one.

SPEAKER_06: 57:35

Oh, yeah for me. Yeah, that would be a hard one too.

SPEAKER_02: 57:38

Like, don't touch me. Don't you hit me? Yeah, like don't.

SPEAKER_06: 57:40

Because then because then if I hit you, then it's a whole nother level. Right. I would say that the verbal abuse, man, is is is up there too. Yeah, you know, because it's like, man, be rating, especially public verbal abuse. I mean, not to say it's better to do it in the closet or at home, but it's still. Do not disrespect me in public. Yeah, because she, yeah, I've seen the folks, I'm like, man.

SPEAKER_04: 58:05

Well, not just that too. I have another one, like, I shouldn't know how I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02: 58:09

Yeah, we're like going down the list.

SPEAKER_04: 58:11

Yeah, so there's like it's verbal abuse, but it's just uh causing a scene. Yes. I get embarrassed, you know. I was like, don't cause a scene, I don't care what it is. I was raised that way to where I end, you know, you end up being with someone who wasn't raised that way, where they're like, I don't care who's watching, I don't care who's listening. Oh my God. I'm just like, here we go. You know?

SPEAKER_02: 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 58:32

So that those are those are the main ones. You got anything else, Doc? That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_02: 58:36

Okay, last one. In your opinion, what are some things that you would hear from a woman on a first date that would make you see that she's a woman of value?

SPEAKER_06: 58:47

Uh I would say that uh, like I mentioned before, having uh displaying or demonstrating, I guess, genuine love for family or have the family value. And for me, um personally is like someone that's enjoys like cultural stuff, reads. My wife reads a lot. But also, you know, just tied to culture and and family.

SPEAKER_04: 59:09

Um showing that you're selfless, taking an honest interest in something that maybe I aspire to accomplish, and maybe really early on having a conversation about how you can support me in that endeavor. I have to think about if you have children coming in, having the the interest in being a family person, because I need to know how you're going to treat these kids. Because it's not an easy undertaking. You know, you're going to pretend to care about little kids that you don't care about initially. And then you're going to learn to love them because we all go, ooh, how wonderful. And day one, you act like you love this kid. You don't love that kid.

SPEAKER_01: 59:53

How wonderful.

SPEAKER_04: 59:54

You know, let's be real. Yeah, but you don't have that kid, it's gonna have to grow on you. Yeah, you know, you're gonna have limitations. So I have to for me to see this person as uh as someone of value, I have to think about how you would act in the future based on things that you've done in the past and things you say, but really just taking an interest in something that I want to do and wanting to partner with me in terms of like attacking certain things and making life easy for both of us based on how we're teaming up to do this thing called life. So just picking your brain, checking out your philosophies, what you believe in, not in terms of so much spirituality, but like what you believe in in terms of growth, where we're going, what this is about, what we're doing here, you know, understanding your intentions.

unknown: 1:00:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:38

So that'll be it for me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:39

Do y'all want this last one? It's about friends. Do men actually judge women based off of the friends that they keep?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:48

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:52

What if it's a childhood friend? Someone you've grown up with and they've just taken a different avenue, but you have a love because you grew up with them for like 20, 30 years.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:01

I'm gonna take this one real quick because I have plenty of those and I'm not close to them anymore because there are seasons and I'm outgrowing that. I've outgrown those seasons a long time ago. I also need to think about if I bring this person around my family and my wife, how that impacts my family and my wife.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:21

And if that person is not right for us, not just me, but for us, I don't need to keep that person around me. So I do judge you based on the company you keep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:31

Why wouldn't I? Because it tells me everything about you. Tells me a lot about you, maybe not everything, but a quite a lot about you.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:38

And but sometimes we have, you know, like you said, childhood friends or or folks who might do different things and you might, you know, spend a small amount of time with them. Hey, you know, maybe have a drink, but don't hang, hang out with them. Or do you bring them home or bring them into your safe or or sacred spaces? That's right. You know, they they you know, we can hang out, but we you can't hang here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:02

Yeah, you know, so there's a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:04

I I I tend not to cut off people. I don't and maybe that's a fault of mine, because I find that there's value in something, but I know people cut me off.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:14

I'm just total opposite. I don't see doc.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:16

Do you have the same phone number from 20 years ago? Yeah. Damn. My shit got cut off a few times, so yeah. So you don't have my number. You can't reach me. And I've moved a bunch of times. You know, I grew up in New York, but I've moved a million times. I've lived in Florida, I've lived in Tennessee, I've lived in Georgia. Yeah, so you can't keep up with me if I don't want to keep up with you. Right. And that serves me greatly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:36

He said you can call the same number. Now will I answer?

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:40

Oh do not disturb. Right. So people are upset, but that's the way I protect my peace. Yeah. I I rarely answer my phone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:47

So I have it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:49

Okay. So am I doing the outro or you guys are doing the outro?

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:53

Well, you know, traditionally we have a thing on this podcast where we do an impression on the outro.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:02

I think it should be you, doc.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:04

Oh, okay. All right, so you're gonna be who? Let's do it, doc. Oh, sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:12

Hey, hey, hey, hey. Please support us by following the show. Leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We will catch you next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:31

Yeah, yeah, let's go. And then we're about to get to the next one.