SPEAKER_01: 0:00

I have my own crib up here. I lived on my own. I always from 2005, 2008, had my own spot. Got out of law school. Moved up here and did the damn thing my daddy told me never do. Moved in with a woman. And it been hell ever since, bro. I mean, that bull got me in 2023, and I've been trying to get off this something bitch for the past three years. And I just got this on bitch this year. The January 7th, I got the keys to my own house.

SPEAKER_00: 0:26

You got an exact date.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

I'm telling you, bro. What was the date? January 7th. 2026. Got welcome to my own house for the first time.

SPEAKER_03: 0:37

What's going on, everyone? Welcome back to the pod. As a quick warning, there is one mention of suicide in this particular episode. Now, as you just heard, this is going to be a very exciting conversation. I'm joined today by LaDre Gilbert, who heads the Brother Let's Talk About It initiative. It's sponsored by Pete Monfayette. And the goal of this organization is to screen as many men as possible to make sure we don't suffer in silence and allow a disease that otherwise could have been treated to take us out. I'm also joined by Mike the Barber from iHeart in Douglasville, Georgia. And man, listen, what started out as a great conversation about the work that they're doing in the community as a peer group quickly escalated to opposing views on religion. But it really got turned up when we started having conversations about having our own space in a house within a marriage or just preferring to live alone. Wait till you hear Mike's philosophy on married couples having separate bedrooms. I couldn't stop laughing, but honestly, how many of you, men or women, would agree with that mindset? One quick favor. As you're listening to this on any platform, click on the show notes and you will see the phrase support the show. It will take you straight to our support page so you can help us keep the show going with a monthly donation of as little as$3. We appreciate your support. And if nothing else, share the episode with at least one person. Just copy the link and send it over to them. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it. Yeah, man, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01: 2:50

Hey man, glad to be back, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 2:51

We're at iHeartBarbershop. I wanted to do this so we can kind of discuss how this impacted some of us and a lot of people last year, what it did for us, and what you're planning on doing with it this year. So tell us again about the initiative, the foundation, what's going on, who's involved, and um what we can expect.

SPEAKER_01: 3:13

Cool, cool. Yeah, man. Well, first of all, man, it's good to be back. Thank you for uh, you know, this second round, but we just got to start by thanking Pete Montfayet um for believing in this project and actually investing in it to make sure that we have what we need to continue to do this work. Um we're back here with Brother Let's Talk About It, our men's mental health and wellness initiative in the sacred space of the barbershop. Yeah. Same place where we started last year, our art barbershop. So, yeah, man. So we're here, but we want to just make sure that we're continuing to have an open dialogue with the brothers, right? Let's talk about what's on your mind, let's talk about things that, you know, may you may not feel the space to be able to, you know, to be able to get things off your chest. You know, we carry around a lot. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I did this year when I did the um the logo for Brother Let's Talk About It, is I had Atlas, you know, because of the guy caring the world. Caring the world, sure. But we also got to thank Mike, man. You know, we're back where everything started last year, man. So we just wanted, it came full circle. So we wanted to, where we started out, wanted to come back in. You know, you with us, man, helped us really get this initiative off the ground. So we appreciate all that, man. Appreciate everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

I look at it like people open up in the barbershop, but not all the way. But when you get them by themselves and you get to get to know them and y'all build a relationship, sometimes, most of the time, they open up. Yeah. And but it won't be in the open barbershop area, but you might get a call on the phone, anything. So like, 'cause one thing I know, man, my clients, they call me for anything. Oh, that's what's up. Advice, money, problems going on with the wife and the kids and whatever. Sometimes I just listen. Yeah. Sometimes I intervene. But yeah, when you're in an open space, they'll kind of open up to get to know you and get to let you know them. But then when y'all build that relationship, they will call you.

SPEAKER_03: 5:05

I should have been doing that, man. Call my barber. What's up? Listen, I'm going through something right now.

SPEAKER_02: 5:10

You guys know, man, we hear a lot of things in here. Even when we by ourselves, just the barbers in here. We talk amongst each other. So you get to know about other people and learn things about certain situations. So when people come to you, you kind of already ready for it because you don't heard so many different conversations, so many problems and solutions and stuff like that. So you kind of be right on it. You don't get it all the time, but most times you can kind of help somebody.

SPEAKER_03: 5:35

That makes sense, man. I forgot where I heard this, but like the original therapists are barbers and bartenders. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's true. Now, if you mix it all in and start serve liquor in here.

SPEAKER_01: 5:47

Yeah, you'll get the some crooked edges, but that's true.

SPEAKER_03: 5:52

No, they don't drink, but it's so you really get some ideas. So tell us, we did this last year. Did it impact your network? Did it help some people?

SPEAKER_01: 6:02

So let me just say this, man. Like, I'm gonna start myself personally. You know, I'm always willing to throw myself off as the guinea pig, right? But like, man, last year, man, was like, even the day that we started this, if you guys knew what it took me to get here that day, I mean, it was crazy. So to go through all of that, man, and to go through like, I mean, I was literally driving in and out of town from Alabama. Like, anytime we had an event like that day, we were in Douglasville, I was, I drove from Alabama to get there and got there late. So it was just like back and forth to Florida, back and forth to Alabama, but trying to do this work in the Metro. So, man, for me, for us to get across the finish line September 20th and screen all those men and have Morehouse School of Medicine to run out of supplies, bruh, like that made it more than worth it. But it also taught me.

SPEAKER_03: 6:49

Before you move on, what do you mean? Most people don't know what exactly that you had to do and what you did. And when you say to get across the finish line, what was that event and what did it do for people?

SPEAKER_01: 6:58

So it's never been done the way that we did it before last year. So just trying to like get people to buy in on the vision, trying to hold everything together, sponsors, screening partners, trying to get everything organized. You know, it was just really cool to see it, see it come together. So now, you know, not only like have a second season, like people they say, okay, we want to do it again, but have someone like Piedmont, Fayette, say, hey, not only do we want you guys to do it again, but we want to come in and be as a partner and help you guys grow. I mean, I think that's like, you know, just a testament to like all of our hard work and just resilience. Yeah. So and and and really speaking about some of the issues as we're trying to unpack these things, how do we compartmentalize and handle so many things at once, but still stay focused on the goal?

SPEAKER_03: 7:42

Mike, what are you hearing like in general that you know they're not having these conversations anywhere else?

SPEAKER_02: 7:48

I don't heard some that make you cry. They really open up. Yeah, so sometimes people open up. Even like you might have a uh, you might be cutting the kid hair, and the mama have a problem. And she calls you with her problem. Serving her her kid and cutting her kid's hair and building a relationship, you open up and start talking to him. Because I don't heard some deep stuff, man. Some stuff you wouldn't believe. I'm like, damn, you call me, bruh. I ain't gonna get deep in, but one I heard um a person, they lost their um mom. But their mom committed suicide while they were walking in the door.

SPEAKER_03: 8:23

Damn, damn.

SPEAKER_02: 8:24

And so they always blamed themselves.

SPEAKER_03: 8:27

So they witnessed the whole thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 8:29

They even tried to say their mom. And they blamed themselves. Say they weren't strong enough. So I just told them, like, nah, it wasn't you. They was she wasn't strong enough. I like don't blame yourself. I like you gotta stop blaming yourself. You gotta blame your mama. Even though that's your mom, your mom did that. Your mom was weak. You was strong because you stood there and you grew up and you done got grown and you still going on with your life. And you don't pass the age that your your mom was. So I just like look at the situation that you're strong and you're showing your mom that you can keep going.

SPEAKER_01: 9:01

And so you get some deep situations. So I have a question for you, Mike. You come in and you're taking all that stuff home, right? On a daily basis, like that's part of your job, is coming in. Like, how do you kind of decompress and like kind of, you know, not like internalize that stuff and take it with you?

SPEAKER_02: 9:17

I ride the long way home. Sometimes I cut the music off, sometimes I play the music to the max. But I take the long way home when I leave here. I need that time to myself. I just get in deep thought. Yeah, so because sometimes somebody can call you with something, you ain't even got the answer for it right now. You just might be riding, thinking about it next day. You be like, look, I thought about what you said. So when I get to myself, is when I get in my car and I ride.

SPEAKER_01: 9:42

And also, too, Steph, I think that like um, you know, you the work I've been doing the last year, going around the state of Georgia, man, it's like you hear people, it's the same problem everywhere you go. Like it's everybody's trying to figure out how can we stretch this dollar as far as we can. You know, are we gonna have um what we need for our families? You know, what the future looks like, you know, and so, um, but when you start to hear that collectively, like no matter whether you're in Metro Atlanta or you're in Columbus or you're in Cordillo, you still hear like some of the same problems. But the the common theme is the barbershop is a place where you can bring those problems and at least, and even I think we started off last year, we had the goat debate, right? Everybody had their own goat. We had a goat debate down in Cordillo. Yeah. And the gentleman that had a barbershop that was actually a little camper that he turned into and converted in the barbershop. And we were in there, it was the same thing going on, just everybody talking, having a good time, getting their hair cut, but then we haven't had the goat, mate. So it's just good to just be able to go out and still see that like this sanctuary exists across you know space wherever you, no matter where you are.

SPEAKER_03: 10:48

You know what I find to be in my sanctuary?

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

What's that?

SPEAKER_03: 10:50

Same as Mike's driving silence. I get a lot of windshield time anyway, just the nature of my work. So I'll be in the car a lot, and at some point, I'm always listening to either podcasts or an audiobook, or very rarely listen to music. I may have another hour to go home. Right. And I'll just go ahead and shut everything off and in my own thoughts. And sometimes that's a dangerous place to be. Sometimes I'm like, man, am I creating worry when worry doesn't exist? Or am I, and maybe just putting uh some negative vibration out there? You don't have anyone to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 11:22

So my mind battle itself. Both of them battling itself. One side of the brain battling the other side when you're in silence. So when you're in silence, when you get to that battle, you gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_03: 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:32

It's like your conscious, the good and the bad, mixing in together. Yeah. And one gonna overcome the other one.

SPEAKER_01: 11:37

And the older we get, the older we start to realize the voices. Oh, yeah. So we can recognize like what's what's real and what's bullshit. You know, so um, but I think it's like um in The Godfather One, when Vito got ready to pass the mantle down to Mike, he told me, he said, you know, you can never be careless. Women and children, they can be careless, but but not men. So we always have to be on that edge, whether we're giving credit for it or acknowledged for it or not, like we're always on that edge because it's at the forefront of our mind. We just got so many things that we have to cover, man, and and we gotta figure out how we balance that stuff out.

SPEAKER_03: 12:09

Speaking of so many things we gotta cover, I'm gonna ask both of you guys who weigh in on this. You've traveled a lot, being on the campaign trail and doing so many different things, and you talk to a lot of different people. What are you both finding that is if you had to pick the top three issues that's top of mind for everyone right now? Like, hey, all men are going through. What are the top three things? Like anyone of y'all can take it. Okay. Both of you can take it.

SPEAKER_02: 12:35

Completing your goals. Okay. That's one. Another one. Just dealing with every day, just dealing with work, dealing with home.

SPEAKER_03: 12:45

So but everybody got that going on.

SPEAKER_02: 12:47

Women got that going on.

SPEAKER_03: 12:48

I mean, you can say a young man got that going on. He ain't even grown yet, but he's he can say I'm dealing with home. I'm 14 years old. Yeah. But the completing your goal is a big one. We'll come back to you. Because that one right there, because it does impact people and it does affect them. Because there's no quicker way to for a man to feel like he hasn't done enough, hasn't accomplished enough, he's kind of a loser because he had goals for himself, or maybe other people had goals for him and aspirations for him that he didn't and you know he didn't meet. So it's very, very difficult for them to look themselves in the mirror and be like, yeah, I feel good about who I am today, because that goal hasn't been met. I struggle with that. I know a lot of people who do. So um, what's one for you?

SPEAKER_01: 13:28

So I think that uh as as men, we try to figure out our identity, right? Because as from a young age, we're indoctrinated. Like our society is telling us who to be, who we are, yeah, yeah, and what we have to be. Like I remember thinking to myself, like when I was coming up, like when we was like 13, 14, man, you had to be hard. If somebody like tried you any kind of way, looked at you wrong, whatever, like you had to react.

SPEAKER_04: 13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

You know, you had to show force because that's like you had to be hard. Like, you know, everybody had their chest out, like you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, bro, you know, so. But I think it's it's from an identity standpoint. Even when you talk to little kids in in like in the mentor space, they want to be professional athletes. They want to be, you know, rappers, they want to be things. Nothing's wrong with those things, but that's all that they think that they can aspire to.

SPEAKER_00: 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

But then as as you grow and you start to learn, like you say, not expectations are placed on you. You get to a certain age where I think that, and it even happened to me to a certain degree, but you're so tied to an identity. Like when I was a baseball player, when I wasn't a baseball player anymore, shoot, I struggled at school for two years because I didn't know what else to do. I had played baseball my whole life, so when I didn't play baseball anymore, I didn't know. So it's like I think that then you go through what you the failure of your 20s, right? And then you have that one monumental thing that happens in your 30s, that pretty much when you get to your 40s, you're like, okay, now, all right. So I think that that what I've seen across the board is that no matter what space you are, whether you're a child, teenager, um, you know, early young adult, 20s and 30s, is that we're all trying to figure out what our identity looks like at that space. You know, I'm 44 now, so we say, you know, we're all about like peace and alignment. And like if it's not an alignment, I'm not, you know, entertaining it. If it's not about money, or it's not anything that's gonna help enrich me, I don't want to entertain it. But like, you know, 10 years ago, you know, whatever, you know what I'm saying, you'll be on some more of that bullshit because you're just having a good time. That's right. But now it's like, man, being in the house, like right now, bro, I can't wait to go to the house, take out, get back, you know, back in the bed and watch the wire. You know what I'm saying? I'm ready to get back to it. So, but I but I think, yeah, going across what you just said, they struggle with their identity at different phases in life.

SPEAKER_03: 15:35

Yeah, so that's two real good ones. One is hitting their goals, their personal goals, and self-identity. And I think it's a crisis that a lot of people have. Because, you know, once someone asks you that question, do you know who you are, what you stand for, or even describe yourself. Tell me who you are. I'm a master barber. Is that it? What what else are you? Not that you need a whole bunch of things, but what is that identity? It's challenging because I don't know if any one of us has a script. But have you all figured that part out?

SPEAKER_02: 16:04

To be like To a certain extent, you ain't gonna never be complete. You'll never be complete trying to figure out who you are because you're always evolving. You always gonna change, you always gonna have something else that you don't find out about yourself. So you'll never get to the point that you fully gonna know yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 16:20

That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, because I guess you need to know what point you await to be coming. That's it. That's all. Are you still developing? Yeah. What's another thing that you're hearing?

SPEAKER_02: 16:30

Men have self-esteem problems. Yep. Men have self-esteem. Self-esteem? Yes, a lot of men have secret self-esteem problems.

SPEAKER_03: 16:38

That's not something that I attribute to men. I usually think of that. No, men. Like you were about how you look? Yes. Or your presentation of self-worth, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:48

Yeah. Who you are, how you present yourself, how others think about you real bad. Like. What's some examples?

SPEAKER_01: 16:57

What are you So Stefan players completely like you blind on this one?

SPEAKER_03: 17:02

I got my shortcomings, right? You know, everyone's got theirs, but what's not perfect with me was just like, I don't care about that because I got so many other things that I know that are really good.

SPEAKER_02: 17:10

A lot of men, that's their problem. They worry about where somebody, how they dress, who they're with. You see it every day on Instagram. People be giving you a picture of their life that ain't really their life because they got self-esteem problems that they don't even want you to know. So they beer themselves up to be something that really not. Straight up. And that's what Instagram really is. A lot of people on there billing things that you'll really think like this, this who this person is, but when you get to really know them, that's not them. Straight up. That's a self-esteem problem.

SPEAKER_03: 17:39

Yeah, I haven't thought of it that way. Yeah. I thought it was a comparison problem. You know, but you're right. It's it's gotta be.

SPEAKER_02: 17:45

I might try to present that I got this big house, I sit in, man. You gotta see people, man. They be in front of Airbnb, taking pictures, and and I see your car, I got your money, and I'm gonna take a picture with it like it's mine. And I'm gonna put this on Instagram just to show out for the other people, my peers and other women that I'm trying to get. But when they get around me, they find out who I really am.

SPEAKER_01: 18:08

Man, all the way up to your 50s, might be 60s. Yeah. But I I think it goes back to what I was saying about the identity, right? So like people like, they they they can't look in the mirror and be satisfied with the person looking back at them. So now they gotta always chase this facade, put up this facade. Yes. You know, like when you're comfortable being, you know, who you are, and like you said, like people um, you know, like who they're with and who they dress. Like my auntie told me a lot, you could tell a lot about a person, but she was talking from a man's standpoint, about how he carries himself, how he dresses, how he grooms himself, how he smells, the woman he's with, right? And my other uncle, I played baseball with him, saying a lot baseball. He said, man, he wanna do three things good. He wants to look good, he wanna ride good, he wanna live good. Look good or live good. That's his that's his three things. So based on how he's presenting that, the woman he has by his side, and then other people, we we we're thinking in our head, we're so important to other people. We really think people really give a crap about what we got going on. People don't got their own problems. But we built up in our mind that we're this monolith that people are really looking at us and like they're analyzing everything about us, so we feel like, okay, well, I got to present this, or I got to go out here, it's got to be this way, or this woman here really loves me. But since she's not to this standard, you know, I'm gonna turn my back on her, but I'm gonna go out here and chase this other fool that don't give a damn about me and gonna, you know, run running up on me.

SPEAKER_02: 19:30

So it's just like PJ hit my life right there.

SPEAKER_01: 19:33

I'll go through that right now. My bad, Mike. I ain't mean I didn't mean to get it with a straight front. I didn't mean to hit it with a straight word.

SPEAKER_02: 19:40

But you hit it right on the top. Boom.

SPEAKER_01: 19:43

You know, and and I think also, too, like as black man, man, again back to the identity thing. Like society tells us if we don't have this stuff done by a certain time, we're a failure. But like rich dad, poor dad, that whole mentality, there's other people out there that tell their kids, like, look, you're not gonna really hit your stride if you hit 45, 46. Like when you you're really gonna really start, you know, for most people, you know, some people get it, but for most people, you're really gonna hit it because you're gonna be set in your ways. You go have should have more self-control, right? Not running around all like a like a fool all the time. I mean you should be more focused on what you're doing, and you've made enough mistakes to where, like, when the blessings come now, you know how to handle it as opposed to fumbling.

SPEAKER_04: 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:23

So so we we gotta start teaching our kids that, like, hey, man, delay does not mean denial, right? It's all a process, trust the process, but also, but more so special, you gotta love yourself first. If you don't love yourself, right, you you wasting the time, you spinning wheels, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 20:36

I wanna ask about mental health and spirituality, where the two intersect. If you ask some people, they're gonna tell you, you know, I pick up the book and I read the Bible, and this is what my guiding principles are, etc. Or some people will tell you that I meditate, I do something different. Some people will be like, I just go see a therapist. Studies are showing that religion is kind of dying a little bit. Like there are less and less people who are going through the conventional church. So are you finding that more people are challenging those dogmas and really trying to find different ways of figuring this stuff out?

SPEAKER_02: 21:10

Man, people don't really go to church no more. When it comes to that, like people are looking for other things because you can't go to the church no more and get counseling no more and really trust personnel. So people are really reaching out to other people, like closer friends, or sometimes best to reach out to a stranger because they don't really know you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So you'll open up a little more. Yeah. Well, you go to your church and then you don't open up to them, and you go into church, you looking around, like, are they talking about me? The next sermon, you know what I'm saying? So when it when it comes to that, I think people when it comes to opening up in church, I think they stepping back from that.

SPEAKER_03: 21:49

Past 10 years, people have been pretty comfortable with saying, Yeah, I go to therapy. Yeah. This is what I do, self care and all this other shit. Whereas before, yeah, you tell someone I'm going to therapy, it's like, What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you now? So now it's like it's recommended. Um, and everyone should be in therapy and to some degree or another or whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 22:08

So everybody should go to therapy. Just talk to somebody. It really don't have to be a therapist. Just find to you. Go talk your body.

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 22:19

And you talk to them and really release because when you release things, man, that have been on your mind and stuff, man, you feel better. It's like really like you really putting a bag of rocks. When it comes to like mental health, it's like putting rocks in a bag. Okay. So if I sit here and I come to you and I give you my rocks and I tell you all my rocks, I sit all my rocks in front of you. When I leave, my bag is empty and now I'm light. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like everybody should have somebody, a friend, a family member, a counselor, a stranger, your barber. Somebody that you can open up and talk to every now and then. Because if you keep everything inside yourself, you're gonna blow up one way or the other. Good or bad. Well, really, bad. Yeah. When it comes to holding everything in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:05

Let's just add something about the whole church thing. You know, I grew up in the church, Sunday school, Wednesday, revival me, man. I never played on any all-star game. Because when it was summertime revivals come around, my dad was like, nah. Church. You going to church and you had to turn the TV off from Sunday night all the way through the next month. You couldn't watch TV, you had to pray and get what they say, that old-time religious stuff, right? So I came up really indoctrinated. And, you know, and I'm thankful because I have a ground, I feel like a grounded relationship with God. But man, I'll be honest with you, man. Like, I have to force myself to go to church. I don't have to force myself to get on the men's ministry on Saturday morning with brothers just getting around doing what we're talking about now, talking about life problems and talking about the word and making it correlate. I don't have a problem with that because we're all on the same level. But man, you go in in church, man, I'm sitting here listening to this person. Or even online listening to this person. I know that the stuff they're telling me is not the whole truth. I know it's being catered to me. And then when I really listen to it, it's not even being catered to me, it's being catered to my woman or the woman, women around me, right? Nothing wrong with that, ladies. Don't jump on me. I'm just saying this is what's going on. How do I embrace this?

SPEAKER_03: 24:20

Are you now pulling away from the church? You say you have to force yourself. Why are you forcing yourself to go if you don't feel like it's the right place for you?

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

Because in myself, within myself, I'm trying to, you know, like my dad was always like, get a Lord sometime. Get a Lord sometime. Like, son, don't matter what you're doing, get a Lord sometime. So in his, what he meant was go to church. So I'm trying to figure out the identity thing, right? How do I, you know, reprogram myself to still get a Lord sometime and be okay with like, okay, I'm not going to church. So in my head, I'm still thinking, I gotta go to church. And I go in there and I'm sitting and listening, I'm like, man. And honestly, bro, I'm gonna tell you what I found better, man. I do my own devotional. And I invite whoever wants to come. I pick out this passage of scriptures. And what I found more and more has started to happen is, man, I just be having a regular conversation and I just start opening up into scripture and we'll just start doing it, right? That's the way. That's why I thank my parents, because my parents taught me the foundation. Yeah. And now I I started to feel like more and more like it's starting to come out of me instead of me looking external for it, not saying that there's nothing I can't learn, I can always learn. But instead of me just always being sort of dependent upon somebody to give it to me, I'm actually going seeking it for myself.

SPEAKER_03: 25:39

Yeah. Interestingly, I wouldn't say I'm raised in a church, but I was raised by my grandmother who was extremely religious, and I had to go to church every Sunday and all of that. But the second I started to be able to think for myself, that shit went out the window.

SPEAKER_01: 25:52

So what pulled you out though?

SPEAKER_03: 25:54

I don't want to sound offensive when I say this, but uh just a certain knowing from the inside. When people used to ask me that, I used to answer common sense. But what I find is I didn't have to go seek God, if that makes sense. God was within me, and I can exude that presence anytime I wanted and connect that way without looking for that building, looking for that establishment.

SPEAKER_01: 26:17

But I think it's very necessary for us to have this conversation because I think we're kind of at a crossroads right now where, you know, like you got preachers talking about close the doors. You know, or like the lady came up and she was trying to sow her seed, and the pastor like basically berate her and tell her that that's not what I said. I said you gotta stow 2,000. She's like trying to 1,200. She's like, well, Pastor, I'll go get the rest. I mean, like, come on, man. Like, I mean, I mean, it's like to the point of like you're blatantly lying to people.

SPEAKER_03: 26:46

When I see shit like that, I laugh and I go, that's what you get.

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

But believing all that dumb shit, that's what you get. But but but I but I think that even in that, like, the truth at the end of the day is still buried somewhere in there. It's just it's become so perverted that it's like it's just about money.

SPEAKER_03: 27:03

But it's very aware.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

Very unaware. What what we're trying to convey, there's a higher power, treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Forgiveness is better, letting go things, um, being charitable, you know, giving and and and loving. I think that at the end of the day, that's the that that there's truth there.

SPEAKER_03: 27:23

So if that's all the Bible said, then you'll be 100% right. But everything you just said, the Bible itself contradicts it. Treat everyone the way you want to be treated, but it can be justified. In the Bible, there's a way to justify slavery.

SPEAKER_01: 27:38

Well, see, this is why I look at it, Stefan. Like, when I was in law school, they taught us XYZ. I forgot he's a lawyer. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying, bro, I'm not trying to argue, bro. I promise you, bro. I'm just trying to give you about this phrase. When I was in law school, man, they taught us XYZ. This is the statute, this is this. Okay, we're we're we're on the statute. But when I got to start like practice, I realized, man, it's a whole different world. Like, like, if we just go by what's these rules that are written in this book, so I think that it's the same way with like the Bible. Like, once you start getting out there in life and applying life, so get so I guarantee you, like, we we would have a conversation. We could sit down and all have us a cigar, have us a drink. And if we really just open up to each other, there's some common thread between, like, you grew up in Atlanta. I grew up in, you know, the country, North Florida, you grew up in New York. But it's some common thread that you and I have, all of us have.

SPEAKER_03: 28:29

100%.

SPEAKER_01: 28:30

Because it's just like a the shared experience. That's not by, that's not by uh, I think by not by chance. I think that's by design, right? So whether you are not a church going person, you like me, you kind of like pull, you're trying to figure out the the next step. I think that at the end of the day, we can sit down, we can come together, we could build something good, we can, we can what we're doing now, right? We we can do something good together because of that shared common experience. And I think that that's what we need to focus on more is like the shared common experience, the things that we have in common as opposed to differences. Religion is always trying to focus on people's differences and putting people up to a higher level. And I that's why I think that like that Bible, I think more is advisory guidelines than it is actually like strict strict construction.

SPEAKER_03: 29:22

But which Bible, though?

SPEAKER_01: 29:24

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_03: 29:25

Because not only in one religion you have several. There you go. And then depends on where you're born. Because if you were born somewhere in North Africa, you would have been Muslim, possibly, or you were born in in the Middle East, you would have been Muslim. If you were born in China, you would have been a different religion, or whatnot. So that's what I mean. Like, and I can go sit with a Chinese man, I can go sit with anyone from anywhere, and you'll find, like to your point earlier, you'll find that you still connect with people because at the end of the day, there's still the one thing that we all want. We all want to be good. People are inherently good, people want to do what's right by them and their families, and none of that stuff is necessarily biblical. But like I said, we're gonna have another conversation because I want to invite you back to that.

SPEAKER_01: 30:04

Let's put the books down for a second. Let's pull out the commonality. Whether somebody's a Buddhist, people will say, Well, oh, I can't deal with that person because that person's a Buddhist. I mean, you go eat Chinese food and you then got the Buddhists in there. What are you talking about? You don't deal with Buddhists, right? But you say, Oh, I can't deal with a Muslim, you know, but at the end of the day, like, that's some of the most strict and most principled people when it comes down to how they worship and how they live their life. And a lot of their practices can really make a lot of us healthier if we were that strict. Why just focus on the institution in which this person chooses to worship? Oh, was born into and uh born into, and let's figure out as a black man or whatever, how what the commonality can have how we could how we connect. Yeah. Because that's what I think is the real power source, it's the connection that we all have.

SPEAKER_03: 30:53

So let's kind of go back to mental health and talk about that for a second. You know, we talked about religion and we kind of segue a little bit left here, but as far as uh mental health and meditation, what are you hearing that people are doing when it's not necessarily the traditional I go to a therapist or I go sit out with someone when it's something else? Like he talked about what he does. Sometimes people go home and they sit in the driver for 30 minutes before they go in the house. I do that. You know what I'm saying? I do that. You sit in the car for however long before you go in the house. You married? No. Oh, you single? Something like that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:30

I ain't married, though. Mike say you ain't finna incriminate me. No, I ain't married. Something like that.

SPEAKER_03: 31:36

We ain't gonna give your last name out. Something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 31:40

But I ain't married.

SPEAKER_03: 31:41

Profile says it's complicated. Right. But yeah, I hear you, man. It's like, you know, going home. That's not my situation now. But there were plenty of times where, oh man, the long way home wasn't long enough. Yeah. Even though it was long enough, I got in the car. I mean, I got in the driveway, and I'd sit there sometimes for another hour.

SPEAKER_02: 31:59

Yeah, I need that though. Because y'all think about it. I wake up, I deal with my kids, get all them to school, then I come here all day, and I deal with people, all kinds of different people all day. I'm listening to us, I'm listening to them. So when I got window, I just don't want to walk in the house and deal with who is in my house. I'm trying to really get myself back to myself. Like I got all these thoughts and people been talking to me, all these things I'm thinking about, laughing about in the back of my head. I really don't want to shut down all the way before I go in the house and be a whole new person before I walk in the house because I don't listen to everybody else. I don't pick up everybody's energy. You know what I'm saying? So when I go in, I need to release all that energy before I get in the house. That's why I take the long way. And that's why sometimes I sit in my um parking deck and I just sit there because I haven't released it all.

SPEAKER_03: 32:49

Do you find that you're putting on different masks to be a different person or different?

SPEAKER_02: 32:55

It's just, I'm picking up everybody's energy. So I got everybody with me right now. I even got their hair all over my body. So I got them all over me. So really I I'm picking up different moves, swings, and all that. So I really just want to let all that go so I won't be the person that I was in the barbershop and I'm I'm being the man I'm supposed to be when I go home. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01: 33:16

And so that's the difference. So Mike, I got a question for you.

SPEAKER_02: 33:19

So, like, do you think that when you come here, you have to turn it on, like you have to perform, like it's a no, you just have to really in tune into the barbershop because there's a lot of things going on, a lot of conversations going on. Some of them serious, some of them ain't. So, like, when you picking up all them vibes, you picking them and taking them with you. Yeah. So sometimes you just want to get it off you. Like, it's like really, when I'm riding by myself and I'm quiet, it's like I'm I'm cleansing myself from everything, all the energy that was in the barbershop. My energy was up here of barbershop, and now I have to tone it all the way down. So when I walk in here, I want to be like, baby, guess what? This d I'm like, man, hey baby, what's up? Where we gonna eat? Where we going, what we doing? Right. And so I don't bring the barbershop with me. That's just like if I have a problem at home, if I pull up to the barbershop and I just been getting into it with my old lady, I don't need to just walk in the barbershop. Right. I need to get myself together before I walk in here. Because if I just walk in here, it might be some small boom, and now I'm turned down. Yeah. And now I'm bringing my home to the barbershop. That makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 34:21

So where do you leave the bag of rocks that people bring you? Because you said earlier, you said, you know, and I love that. I'm throwing them out the window.

SPEAKER_02: 34:28

Okay. Yeah, when I'm riding, I'm throwing them out the window. I'm getting them, I'm running a real room.

SPEAKER_03: 34:32

One rock at a time. One rock at a time, I'm throwing them out the window. Is there a technique for doing that? Because it's not literal. So what are you doing? Just silence and being still?

SPEAKER_02: 34:41

Transferring energy. Because one thing about energy is not lost, it's not gained, is always transferred. So just to transfer that energy back into who you're supposed to be when you at home, or who you supposed to be when you at work.

SPEAKER_01: 34:54

So I just commend you, man. You know, just like, you know, understanding yourself to that level, knowing your process. Because we all gotta do the best we can, man. Because eventually, man, like you can't just keep loop lapping around your neighborhood. You got to go in the house. You know? But that's why I live by myself, bro. I ain't on that type of time. Last year, bro, I had my own crib up here. I lived on my own. Always from 2005, 2008, I had my own spot, got out of law school, moved up here, and did the damn thing my daddy told me never do. Moved in with a woman. And it been hell ever since, bro. I mean, that that that that that bull got me in 2023, and I've been trying to get off there something bitch for the past three years. And I just got off there some bitch this year. In June, January 7th, I got the keys to my own house.

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

You got the exact date.

SPEAKER_01: 35:42

I'm telling you, bro. It's bro, listen, that shit. What was the date? January 7th, 2026. Got walked into my own house for the first time in three years. Yeah and have had a visitor and had tell that visitor, hey man, you got to you got to go. I like Martin, like get the stepping.

SPEAKER_00: 35:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:02

When they know they got an advantage, like, oh, he's staying here, whatever. You can be contributing, you can be doing whatever. But if you stay, man, they're gonna give you hell. Yeah. They can remind your ass. Of course, the favor that they're doing you. Of course. So I was like, bullshit. No, sir. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Like, no, sir. If I can help it, never again, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 36:22

Is it in general, don't move in with a woman, or is it just that you just chose to not move in with a woman? Don't do that. Ain't that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01: 36:31

Not moving with her. Don't move with her.

SPEAKER_03: 36:33

Y'all move it together. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, of course not. Shit. But I mean like you move in together.

SPEAKER_02: 36:40

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna tell you about that. My situation is cool, but I feel like you should only move with somebody when you're married.

SPEAKER_03: 36:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 36:48

That's what I have learned. Like, I'm just getting to that point to understand I shouldn't stay with nobody if I'm not married to that person. Right. Yeah. Why am I wasting your time and playing house and wasting my time? If we're gonna play house, let's be for real and get let's get married. But if I'm not ready, I shouldn't stay with you. And I'm just getting to that point. I'm trying to figure out how to tell my woman, I love you, I like you, but I feel like I need my own spot. Yeah. Because I'm not right now, we're not finna get married. That's it. Maybe you should send her this episode.

SPEAKER_01: 37:19

Nah. Man, listen, man. Man, don't be kissing my cup, baby. I don't know. Mike ain't gonna let us come over here again. We gotta come back. She's from the hood.

SPEAKER_02: 37:28

She's from one of the worst hoods in Georgia. I agree. Atlanta. So her uh uh. I ain't telling her nothing. I've been trying to figure it out. Like how I'm gonna get up out of here by 20 and keep her at the same time. Oh, well then yeah, that's that's challenging. Yeah. That's challenging. Because I ain't trying to break up well, I just need my own space. And I just feel like it ain't right for people to stay together, you ain't married.

SPEAKER_03: 37:53

There's something to be said about that, man, because even when you're married, if you have a space in the house that's just kind of like your own little place.

SPEAKER_02: 38:02

I'm not saying a relationship like that though.

SPEAKER_03: 38:04

Have your own room. I don't know about your own room.

SPEAKER_02: 38:07

Listen, no, you mean like your own bedroom. Your own bedroom? Yes. Y'all stay together, but you have, she has her room, you have your room. The fuck? Y'all can stay together, y'all can sleep together and all that, but sometimes y'all need that space apart. I don't know about your own room.

SPEAKER_03: 38:22

How about you got you got your bedroom for both of you, right? Because like, nah, hear me out. Man, might you will work? No, no, no, listen. You got your master bedroom. But there's a guest room. So that's true. That's your room.

SPEAKER_02: 38:34

No, I don't want the guest room. I want my own room. No, that's your room. My own, you need your own room. Like, it will really work because I was in a relationship and it worked. And I left it and it worked that way. Like, yeah, and I didn't at first I didn't understand. I'm like, why keep it?

SPEAKER_03: 38:49

Because that's what our grandparents did. Like, they had their own. And they stayed together so long. When they got to a certain age, yeah, but they stayed together 40, 50, 60 years. But most of that is because the women ain't working and can take care of themselves and they had nowhere to go.

SPEAKER_01: 39:02

But still, think about this though, right? We we 1920. What we can't wait to do? Get our own place and bring it and bring a woman in there. She could be in there all the time and we don't care. Yeah. Because we won't, that's what we want. And in our 30s, you know, we want to dip out a little bit, whatever, but at the end of the day, we want to have a space and bring, you know, whatever. But when you start getting your 40s, bro, you know, bro, you be like, man, look, man.

SPEAKER_02: 39:23

I mean. Yeah, that's the only way I'm gonna get married.

SPEAKER_01: 39:27

Listen, I I this is all good and cool, baby. I get it. But the neurons up here, they firing a little different. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. My chemical libidos a little different, so now I just need like peace and quiet. Like, leave me alone.

SPEAKER_02: 39:41

But you can't get that when y'all stay in the same room. Like, think about her favorite show on. Uh-huh. Your favorite game on. Okay. That's a battle. You don't feel like kicking it in the living room. Right. Or she don't want to be in the living room. You want to be in comfortable in your bed. But y'all got them two separate rooms, baby. I'm finna go wipe my game while you stay in here. I'll see you later on. Right. You got your own room. It's set up how you want your man's bedroom to look and all that. Because your bedroom, even though that's y'all's bedroom, she's gonna decorate that bedroom. Of course. So it's gonna be her room, really. And you really stay in there hardly.

SPEAKER_01: 40:19

But Mike, is she gonna let you is she gonna let you watch it? Like, like, for example, you have to be in there watching that show anyway. She's gonna make us sit there because she wants us to be there watching her show that we don't have no damn interest in whatsoever. But we gotta, it's part of what we gotta do, right?

SPEAKER_02: 40:32

But listen, one show, when you stick to that show, at that time, you know that's me and her time. Right. Watch that show, conversate about that show, right? And everything'll go good. Right. But, babe, I'm gonna go watch McGain in this room. I don't want to watch this.

SPEAKER_03: 40:48

So But a woman who's aware should realize certain things. Like, for example, I'll tell you, like, with my wife, she'll I don't feel like I'm in a girl's bedroom. Like, I don't have pictures to show you and shit, but I will tell you I don't walk in there going, yeah, that's her room. I feel like it's my room. She was intentional in the desire, that's what I mean. Like in setting it up, she had me in mind. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 41:09

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03: 41:10

Because let me let me tell you, let me give you an example. I sold my house in Tennessee, because one of us had to move because we met and she was living in Florida. She can keep her career going, I'll just work in sales. Sold my house, moved in with her. I saw her do all kinds of mental gymnastics, trying to figure out how to make the space our space, because it had been her space. And now when we bought a house together, Mohita, Georgia, every time she'd like, do you like this couch? What do you want? For the most part, though, being a man, I was just like, I don't really care. You don't care. And she's like, No, I want your opinion on this, and I'll give it. But I see that there was a lot of effort that was made for me not to feel the way you're saying right now. You saying it, as that's that's rare.

SPEAKER_02: 41:50

All men want a man cave. Well, yeah, of course. Sometimes you need that man room. That man room. Today might be the day. Oh, you're getting on my nerve. I need some time away from you. I might not want to leave the house, but I can go in my own room and shut the door and have my time to myself today.

SPEAKER_04: 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:13

And it calms things down. Because if y'all bump in heads and you say, babe, I'm finna leave. It might escalate. But if you say, babe, I'm finna go to my room over here. I'll see you tomorrow. I'll see you later on. Most times she's gonna calm down and keep on looking at that door. Right. She's gonna want you to open that door.

SPEAKER_03: 42:29

You gotta sign up that says, Do not enter the door.

SPEAKER_02: 42:32

She's gonna look at it and she's gonna think about the things, huh? What she did wrong and what you did wrong. And now y'all gonna come together. You mean? Yeah. Oh, when you come back, she's ready. But if you go in that room, she's gonna want you to come out of that room. Yeah. She's gonna start looking at the room. She's gonna start tapping the baby. Do you know what this said? Do you know where? Can you help me with this? She's gonna start doing that stuff to pull you back out the room. No, that's crazy. Because women don't apologize. That's the way they apologize. You hungry? You hungry? That's how they apologize. Right. So to get them to apologize, man, just go in your room, baby. I'll see you later. Boom. Shut that door. Yo, that's just she gon' look.

SPEAKER_03: 43:10

She's gonna look at that door. I really gotta ask. How many men feel that way?

SPEAKER_01: 43:13

You need to add that though. Like problems that men are having all around, it's like women don't apologize. Like, or how they apologize. It's like, baby, you hungry. Or like you said, they're gonna start coming asking you questions. Yeah, that's that's real. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 43:24

That's real. Man, I I should. I mean, I got one that just says I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 43:29

I'm sorry, I don't deal with a lot of women. Well, you bless brother, man.

SPEAKER_03: 43:32

Yeah, and she basically will come back and say, you know, like I hate that I made you feel this way. And you got one. I acknowledge it, yeah. She'll teach me.

SPEAKER_02: 43:39

You got the one.

SPEAKER_03: 43:41

They gotta be more than one, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 43:43

It's a couple they they real.

SPEAKER_03: 43:46

Man, but yeah. That's that's that's that's something, man. Shit, how do we get on the subject? Man, we would take it.

SPEAKER_02: 43:54

See, yeah, that's real.

SPEAKER_03: 43:56

The barberset barbershop conversation, brother. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02: 43:58

Most black women are irritated. They nagging. They gonna be on you. They like it how they want it.

SPEAKER_03: 44:03

You don't think that's do you think that's women in general or you think that's just black women in general?

SPEAKER_02: 44:06

No, it's women, but is is when it comes to black women, you think they nag more? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 44:14

The white women be catching hell, man. The white women be drinking. They be on that Jack Daniels and that that Jim Bean Hard, bro. And it why y'all be sitting there before they go in the house, boy. Got to take a shot.

SPEAKER_02: 44:24

But they women hit them in the pockets and all kinds of other ways.

SPEAKER_01: 44:27

I wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02: 44:30

Right in your ear. Don't stop. In your face. Nah, we're gonna talk about it right now. You be like, oh my God. Like, yeah. All right, wrap it up.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

Mike, man, thank you for welcoming us back up in your spot, man. We appreciate you for just always being real and supporting us, man. Steph, man, we appreciate you, man. Go ahead. Go ahead. He has some shit.

SPEAKER_03: 44:47

Now I was gonna say, last time I was here, he didn't have all that gray. He got a little wiser. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 44:51

Them bricks, bro. Them bricks he's throwing out the window, right? You know, so um, but no, man, we thank you, Steph, man. You had stuff going on today, man, but you always step up and accommodate, man. We want to thank Pete Monk Fayette for believing in this vision, man, what we're doing, and trying to just spread this awareness and have these conversations and help hopefully continue to open up, you know, man, black men to be able to just talk about stuff like this, man, that we don't get to talk about on a regular basis. I learned, you know, you can be in the house, two rooms. Man rooms. Not a necessary, but not a guest room. Man, bed room.

SPEAKER_03: 45:20

No, no, a man room.

SPEAKER_01: 45:21

Man room with a bed. A man room. With a bed. Right. That's right, that's right. But no, man, but it's but it's all good. And uh just thank you guys, man, so much for, you know, we just continue to look forward to keep keep pushing, man, you know, because at the end of the day, man, like you never know. Just take one. Just take that one person that you're able to spark that change in. True. And it's and it made everything worth it.

SPEAKER_03: 45:41

Yeah, and what what can we expect from this initiative this year? Yeah, tell us what's next.

SPEAKER_01: 45:45

Man, we're about to go up this year. So last year, you know, we were just testing the waters and seeing how things were going. This year, um, we're gonna be doing like actually a men's spa day. So when men get the chance to go together and like, you know, relax and just kind of, you know, unwind. Uh, we're gonna have a you know, women's spa day, women's wellness uh up under the She Matters Initiative, have a women's wellness brunch, men's wellness brunch, um, grilling with our daddy where we get the kids out and show them how to cook on the grill, man. We're gonna do a lot of great things this year, man. So it's just tip of the iceberg. And of course, you know, we're gonna have a barbershop talk once a month, man. So we're gonna be back on the mic, man, and we're gonna just be just continuing to do this work, um, knowing that we're just trying to do, to reach as many people as possible to change as many lives as we can.

SPEAKER_03: 46:29

That is a noble cause, sir. I appreciate you for what you do. I thank you for your service. I thank you for everything that you're doing, the brothers that you're helping. And I thank you, Mike, for the hospitality, for the great advice, for the sage words that you impart on these brothers when they come in here for picking up their bags and their rocks so they can leave a little lighter than when they came in. True that. But yeah, I think this is a good place to end it. So thank you guys. Now, you know, traditionally on the show, before we end the show, it's gotta be we do a quick little outro where someone has to do an impression of somebody famous or an accent or whatever it is. Go ahead, Mike. Yeah, Mike gotta be. Mike, you gotta do it, man. You know what we gotta do. Pick an old rapper or something. Anybody, man.

SPEAKER_01: 47:10

Anybody. Are you gonna bail them out? Uh man. So, but you gotta have to tell me. You gotta tell me who. Oh, bail him out. You gotta tell me, man. You gotta give me uh give me something, man. I kind of ran out of. Oh, man. Man, I'm gonna take my stab at uh at the current occupant of the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, man. I'm gonna take I'm gonna take a stab at it.

SPEAKER_03: 47:30

All right. You gonna be JD Vance?

SPEAKER_01: 47:33

This this is gonna be Trump, bro. All right, that's gonna be fun. Let's do it. Okay, uh please, please support us by following the show. Leave us a five-star review on any podcast, Apple Podcast, uh, the greatest podcast in the world, uh, Man Who Matters. Can't get a better podcast than that. I did a podcast when I was a child. Could never do it like Man Who Matters. Stefan, he's the greatest, he's the best. Those African Americans, I love them. They're great, they're great people. They do podcasts better than anyone. So just thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you the next week uh when you share the conversation surrounding real issues. We deal with everyday manhood matters. We're out of Obama.