SPEAKER_07: 0:04

To breathe the frustration and the resentment. Because, like I said, she had really bad reflux, and we didn't know it at the time. So she's sleeping and she's choking and she's like moving around a lot. And I was he's closer to the light. So I'm like, Can you turn on the light? And he's moving slow. And I'm like, Can you turn on the light? So it's like feeling like you don't have a sense of urgency for what's going on with our child. Because at the time we didn't know it was reflux, it literally looked like seizure-like symptoms. So I'm like, Can you turn on the light? Hurry up. And he's moving slow. He's like, I just woke up and I'm like, I don't care. This is our child. Why aren't you moving fast? What's going on? Hello.

SPEAKER_03: 0:38

So in those moments, someone has to remain calm.

SPEAKER_07: 0:42

Yeah, no, no. Postpartum, it was not me.

SPEAKER_03: 0:44

It's like in those crisis moments, someone has to remain calm. Everyone can't be like, oh, the ship's on fire. Someone has to stay.

SPEAKER_06: 0:51

Let me start by saying that we are not experts. No one here is a clinician or licensed therapist. We are real people having real experiences. And our show is designed to entertain and educate. You know, so many people end up losing their relationship after the birth of a child. A lot of it is due to postpartum depression. But what is it exactly? Do we as men understand it? Do women know what to expect? Are they being told? So you'll hear the story today from Naila, who is a 28-year-old mother of twin girls who are five. You'll hear from Asia, who is a 30-year-old mother of a brand new baby girl who's only six months old. And we'll have invaluable insight from Vlad, a 36-year-old father of a baby girl who's just three years old. You'll hear how polarizing the differences are between the two women on the panel in terms of how their partners showed up during pregnancy and after the birth of their child. We as men don't know what to expect. And sometimes we do all we can and we feel that it's just not enough and it's not being appreciated. And that leads to resentment on both ends. And the women who are going through this feel like they are losing their minds and no one can relate because every experience is unique. Welcome to Man Who Matters. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_03: 2:51

Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. Um when you said when you mentioned that you know most guys don't even know about it, I didn't know what it was until a year before we got pregnant.

SPEAKER_06: 2:58

Oh, so at least you knew prior.

SPEAKER_03: 3:00

Very little. I probably knew what the term meant on in by definition, but not in life. What is the definition of postpartum?

SPEAKER_00: 3:11

After pregnancy.

SPEAKER_06: 3:12

That's all it means. But what is the if we're going into the etymology of the word, I get it. But what is it?

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

I think it's more of an experience.

SPEAKER_07: 3:21

Yeah, there's crazy. There's really no one word to describe it.

SPEAKER_00: 3:25

And no two experiences are the same. You can have two sisters that have completely different postpartum experiences. But one thing that I have noticed is that the women in your family, you're gonna have a similar experience. Like when I was going through um pregnancy and postpartum, I feel like I had a similar experience to my mother than I did to my child's father's mother. And I was spending more time with them, obviously, because I was with the dad. So I was seeking counsel from people that didn't really relate to my situation. Postpartum is just it's a roller coaster. It's very, very strange.

SPEAKER_07: 3:58

For me, I don't really know if my postpartum was the same as my mom's or my aunt's, but I do know the pregnancy was the same and the delivery was the same.

SPEAKER_06: 4:08

Yeah. What was that first moment when you realized that it wasn't just baby blues anymore? What was it? What was the this aha moment for you when you actually said, I'm dealing with postpartum syndrome? Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00: 4:20

Postpartum depression.

SPEAKER_06: 4:22

Is it depression? I don't want to say it's a depression.

SPEAKER_00: 4:23

It can be rage, it can be anxiety. So there's different, that's why I say it's an experience because you can be experiencing different things. You just experience everything at an extreme level. Like for me, I knew that I had it when I started lying on my surveys. Because when you bring your kids, your newborns or your infants to the doctor, you have to fill out how you're feeling as well. And there were certain questions like, are you feeling alone? Are you feeling this? Are you feeling that? Do you have these type of thoughts? And I'm just like, no, like everything's gravy, but I'm lying. And I think I had an episode at my house, which I thought was valid at the time, obviously, but I completely tweaked. It was the most anger I've ever felt in my entire life. I felt like there was fire, like I probably was running hot. Like there was fire, I couldn't see, like it, I just completely blacked out. I broke a lot of stuff in my home and it wasn't that serious, but I've never felt rage like that. And the next time I went to the doctor, I was just like, Okay, I think I need help. I've officially lost my mind. And she was like, I've been paying attention to you. I didn't think you didn't look okay, like your eyes were swollen, you look super, super tired. Um, you're nursing two babies full-time, like something had to be wrong. And it took me a while to acknowledge it because I thought I was crazy because I had never felt anything like it, and I had done so much research on how to prevent it, and I was doing all of the things, so I I was like, this is not what's happening to me. I'm actually losing my mind. Like, I need to be medicated or something. And it wasn't that, it was definitely postpartum.

unknown: 5:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 5:54

What about you, Asia?

SPEAKER_07: 5:56

Like Nice, I wasn't lying on that, but I was I was talking myself out of some things like, okay, are you do you have anxiety? Like, yeah, but I always had anxiety. And there were some other questions like, are you mad? I'm like, yeah, but I don't like I'm not stomping around yelling at anybody. And then I was actually in therapy and she called it the baby blues, not postpartum depression, because I did have anxiety, but I also have a newborn on a first-time mom, and she had a lot of fluid in her. Well, she swallowed a lot of amniotic fluid, so now I'm anxious because she's choking and she has reflux, and I didn't know it yet. So I was saying that like I have anxiety, but I to me it's valid. But my anxiety was also just my boyfriend putting her in the car seat wrong, or just the thought of him taking her to daycare, he forgets, and now she's in the backseat while he's at work, like that type of crazy scenarios that would never happen, but you're dead serious. Yeah, I'm so still crying about it. I am so serious. I cried about her.

SPEAKER_06: 6:51

You still go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07: 6:53

This is embarrassing saying it now. Now I'm in my right mind because she's about to be seven months, but I legit cried thinking about her at daycare, and I was like, she doesn't have any friends. My boyfriend was like, Asia, she's seven weeks, and I'm like, yeah, but like she doesn't have any friends. There's nobody there for her.

SPEAKER_06: 7:13

Yeah, like and you and your boyfriend are together still. Okay, so you were raising her together. Did you notice anything, Vlad, as far as your wife and what she was experiencing? Did you notice it yourself as a man?

SPEAKER_03: 7:27

Yes. And I think I I got a little bit of it twice because we had a miscarriage. After going through that, it was like almost like a like a prelude or it was like a precursor. I can kind of see what that would be like. And then when we had our kid and those first few weeks, first few months, I was getting a vibe that things were different. The looks, the critiques, the very minute minutiae critiques about you know parenting that uh made me like be like, oh, this this was never an issue. We never talked about this being an issue. I couldn't even imagine this being this big of an issue, but that was probably the moment I realized, you know what, I need to kind of back up a little bit and take like a little bird's eye view of this whole situation and realize who's going through what right now.

SPEAKER_07: 8:13

Yeah, that was definitely me. Like waking up in the middle of the night, I would get so mad because I hear her crying and he'll be just beside me snoring. And I think it came to a head one night. Just I had I wasn't had to use the bathroom. You know, you gotta go, you gotta go. So I'm using the bathroom and I hear her crying, and I'm done. I go in the room and he's knocked out sleeping. I just lost it. And I just could not understand how he didn't hear her. And it was it was my therapist that told me, you know, we're more sensitive to them because I carried her, I hear her. Yeah. And he's new to this, but I'm like, so am I. It's postpartum is a weird thing.

SPEAKER_06: 8:54

Yeah. Oh man. Where where does logic go when this is all going on? Out the window.

SPEAKER_00: 8:58

Well, just like it goes from your partner to your enemy. It's like you know that these children are half this person, but you're almost like, I didn't, I didn't want I was lucky in a way because I had my children during the COVID shutdown. So I really didn't have to share my baby with people, like my babies with people. So it helped my anxiety because I mean I was super drama. Like everybody had to put like all these things on. You the babies couldn't even see them. They were so done up. Everybody's pictures in the beginning were so ridiculous because I was paranoid, but I didn't want anybody to touch the babies, including him. Like, stay clear of my children. I these are just and he's like, That's really not how that works. But if you want me to stay clear, I will. And then I'm like, You're gonna abandon us? You're gonna sleep in the living room? Are you kidding? You're gonna go out. Like, we're right here. And he's like, What do you want me to do? Like, I'm scared of you. I don't know. Do I touch him or no? I'm like, no, but you sit right here and not touch him.

SPEAKER_07: 9:54

It was a weird adjustment for sure. Because me and my family are really close. So it was just telling them we're not letting her see anybody yet because we waited until she got her first round of shots. I was very adamant on that. And they just no, like they got pictures and everything in FaceTime, but actually being around here, no.

SPEAKER_06: 10:14

So that she gets her shots. How many months is that? Like two months?

SPEAKER_00: 10:17

All that stuff was delayed.

SPEAKER_06: 10:18

Maybe two. So if a man could live inside postpartum reality for one day, what do you think would shock that man the most?

SPEAKER_07: 10:29

The ups and downs of the emotions and just the mental of it. There's so much that goes on in postpartum, a lot that I didn't even know. Like I was telling I, you have to completely rewire your brain.

SPEAKER_00: 10:41

It's like you're living as a man, it's like you're living the most overstimulating day you've ever had every day, over and over again. So you wake up and you're at your peak of being overstimulated and you can't explain it. And so now you feel crazy. So now you're mad at yourself, you're mad at the world, but there's nothing actually happening. Nothing is wrong.

SPEAKER_07: 11:02

There's so much that goes on top of the overstimulation. So it's not like you're overstimulated, then that stops, and here comes the anxiety. You know, it's like you're overstimulated, and then on top of that, you're angry, and on top of that, you got anxiety, and on top of that, you're tired.

SPEAKER_00: 11:13

And then you don't feel like a good partner because now you're having issues with someone that you adored while you were pregnant, so then it's like I can't even care that you're not okay because I'm not okay. So now we're not okay, and can't explain why you're not okay. Right. It's crazy, none of this makes sense.

SPEAKER_06: 11:29

I gotta go real old school and ask a super old school question, right? Because you know you're gonna hear, you know, it doesn't make sense. So my question is Yeah, how did the women of the past do it? Their relationships survived, because now what happens is a lot of people break up after you know, through postpartum because they don't know how to deal with each other, right? That couple, they don't know how to hang. Most guys have not even bothered doing the research. Like Vlad did he looked it up and he was looking into it or whatever. I didn't.

SPEAKER_03: 11:59

It's funny that you mention it. So um, because I was thinking about you know life in the 90s, right? Is life was just so different. Yeah, we didn't have all these terms, but we probably still had these things. Yeah, because you know, you can think about you know, relationships are the same. I mean, people did have big babies in the 90s and broke up, and some stayed together, some broke up, but you know, a lot of broken homes came out of that time too.

SPEAKER_06: 12:20

Very true.

SPEAKER_03: 12:20

But we didn't have a label for it, yeah. And I think getting the label for it, defining it, more people expressing how it is, I think that even deepens it because you become more informed about it, and then when you're in it, then you're like, y'all can identify it. And it'll and it kind of like feeds into maybe let me explore it a little bit deeper. Uh subconsciously, yeah. I'm thinking, I don't think this is something like mothers are trying to do. Yeah, I think it's just uh a natural human exploratory emotional journey to dig deeper into that. Yeah, because it's like you already know, yeah, I'm going through this postpartum thing, yeah. That's me, it's just being being crazy, and then it's like, damn, I am crazy. Yeah, it's okay to be crazy.

SPEAKER_07: 13:00

It's okay to be a thing. I think back then too, it's circumstance plays a big role into it too. Cause even like let's say when my grandmother was having kids, it was the thing to be a homemaker. So you're staying because that's what you're doing. You can't really go anywhere else, do anything else. But also, they didn't have access to the resources that we have now. So they probably just thought it was normal. But now we know this is depression, this is anger. I can't leave. Like this isn't supposed to happen. So now we feel more free to leave, and there's more than for men.

SPEAKER_00: 13:33

Yeah, I feel like before it wasn't a thing. Like Vlad was saying, there weren't terms, there wasn't all this research, but now it's like you have so much information at your fingertips. So while this woman is pregnant and she's nesting and she's looking up this and we're trying to pick a formula or if we're gonna nurse for the first two years or whatever's going on, you also need to be trying to figure out how to be supportive. There's only so much that you can do as the man. And I think that's where I felt frustrated with my co-parent because I just felt like because he didn't understand the situation, he just avoided me. And it was like that is the last thing that I needed with two newborns while the world is shut down. I don't have anybody else that can come and help me. You're it, so you can't be hiding. But I know why he was hiding because I was too weakened, but still, it's like sometimes you have to get in and you have to fight. This is your family that you created. And I'm not gonna hurt you. Now I might lash out and might not be the nicest person, but I still very much need that support. And I think that's where the initial disconnect happened in our relationship.

SPEAKER_03: 14:33

Maybe it would have felt like he might have felt like in that time his presence might have created resentment.

SPEAKER_00: 14:38

He did say that. And he also said that he had never felt like he struggled, and I don't mean to speak for him, but we've talked about this. Um, that he struggled with mental health for the first time during that season, and he felt almost bad because he couldn't support me because he was struggling mentally with his own thing, and it was just not a good time. It was hard for both of us, and we were both struggling mentally in different directions.

SPEAKER_07: 15:01

See me, like my experience was completely different because my boyfriend went to everything with me, every doctor's appointment, every class that we took. So I knew things about babies, but he didn't, so he knew, and they talked about like the breastfeeding and the depression and the baby blue. So he knew that, so he was able to support me the best he could. It was just me, just everything's going, hormones are everywhere, and I didn't even I did feel like a bad partner because I didn't realize he was also going through things because he's a first-time dad, and that was a new thing for him.

SPEAKER_06: 15:35

Yeah, men are gonna show up in the way that they're used to showing up, and we're not making an adjustment unless we're asked to make that adjustment, if that makes sense. We still we need to support, we need to provide, we need to do all of these things that we just figured we're gonna do it and be a bit more caring and definitely care for the babies, right? But we don't know what it is that you're asking for. So, what did you ladies need emotionally that you never asked for?

SPEAKER_07: 16:00

We're good now. So I will say at the beginning, I really just needed the reassurance, but also just a listening ear. And I really just needed him, like in the middle of the night when I'm up with her, nursing her, changing her. I just needed him to just sit there awake with me.

SPEAKER_06: 16:18

Didn't he have to go to work?

SPEAKER_07: 16:19

Yes. Well, no, he did have two weeks of maternity leave. Oh, so he took paternity leave. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 16:25

Got it.

SPEAKER_07: 16:26

So it was, I just needed that.

SPEAKER_06: 16:28

No, because I'm being excuse. I gotta ask a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01: 16:32

I just want to go to work every day.

SPEAKER_06: 16:34

It's a well, yeah, because if you're waking up and you're gonna stay home the next day, yeah, he can sleep when the baby sleeps, that type of thing. And I know that's not it's easier than that because you're not sleepy at noon, but the baby's like.

SPEAKER_00: 16:44

Oh, I was one thing about it, oh, I knocked out those dishes stayed. I slept when the baby slept. One thing about me, I didn't have a nap.

SPEAKER_06: 16:51

So that's my point, right? Because if he still has to wake up at five and get ready for work, yeah, you're up and you want him to sit there with you.

SPEAKER_07: 16:58

We have wow, that's crazy. We actually have this conversation when he'll be like, Well, I'm tired, I have to go to work. And I'm like, when we take her to daycare and I'm waking up by five, I have to go to work, and we have to go to work at the same time, but I still have to wake up and get things done. I don't get a break the way you get a break.

SPEAKER_06: 17:12

True. Why not take turns? Why not alternate?

SPEAKER_07: 17:15

We did try that.

SPEAKER_06: 17:17

Or you just he's just not waking up, period.

SPEAKER_07: 17:19

He's great. Let me stop let me preface this by saying that he's great, it's just the way he was moving, like slow, or the way he would put on the diaper, a little bit lopsided, and it's just like little things. Yeah, it's comfortable.

SPEAKER_03: 17:35

Um you're striking the nerves, and I'm like, no more lashes, Master. Jeez, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 17:42

It's like little things.

SPEAKER_03: 17:43

But so yeah, that that is what probably made postpartum very, very difficult for me because I was at the all of the doctor's appointments. I, you know, we did every single thing she wanted to do. You know, I was still working while she was I didn't I couldn't take any maternity leaf. I was transitioning from being a chef into what I do now. So I had a job where I was working in the mornings, I could be there in the afternoon. So I had to be up early. And you know, that that is a thing, you know, her feeling like I wasn't there enough. Mind you, uh, it's it was a job that I was working from seven in the morning till noon. So I it was I purposely took the job in the morning so I could be off in the afternoons, give her a break. They'll be still be sleep in the morning. It's not too the mornings are not too much of a stressful time. They're still sleep, she sleeps in. Um, even then, you know, she let me know that she felt like I wasn't there enough. I wasn't doing enough. I was washing the dishes, you know, taking care of the house. Uh I was raised by uh a bunch of Caribbean women, so I'm I can do it all. Still What's wrong with me then? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:49

And he said he was a chef. I don't know if y'all heard that. So he's making meals too.

SPEAKER_03: 18:52

She had shoot she confides, I'll go off on a tandem. She can she confides in one of her friends very much. And during one of our one of her periods of, you know, I guess crisis during postpartum, her friend was there and I guess trying to defend her. And she was she her friend mentioned something to the effect that I wasn't doing it to her standards, I wasn't cleaning to my wife's specific standards, and she had mentioned that to her friend, or that I wasn't moving as quickly like like you had mentioned. So all of that, it's a lot of pressure to put on um the guy, and it's like you said, logic, logic doesn't go out the window. That is their logic. It is makes sense, it does make sense to them in the time. In the time, it's totally logical.

SPEAKER_00: 19:36

In a year, you're like so sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03: 19:37

In the time, it makes totally the calculations are apologize, it's crazy. Um, but yeah, that puts a lot of pressure on a relationship, like you mentioned, Stefan, because in the moment you start to question yourself. If you're not a strong guy, if you're not you're not confident in who you are, and you you know exactly who you are as a person, yeah, to the world outside of who you are in your home, yeah. Um it's a Very very difficult time to be a father, to be a man, and to try to survive and see a future with the person because they're not looking at you as the person you once were. They're looking at you a little bit different. And then guys, you know, if you look at a guy differently a few more a few times, that's it. You give me a few looks that it's not working out, you know, it becomes reality. It becomes real. It's like, yeah, it's like you give me a few a few tastes of like, you know, looking at me crazy, like man, I'm not sure about you. You you let me know that it's not sure, it's unsure. That makes me feel unsure. That breathes everything that would bring about the destruction of relationship and postpartum.

SPEAKER_07: 20:40

For sure. I will say though, what really worked for us is we're really big on communication. So my delivery would be crazy, but he would get the message, though it did change from me wanting him to be up at five with me to now we have a routine just to be there with me. But I changed her diaper, you throw it away. So at least like you've helped me and I feel supported. Yeah. But it did take a lot, a lot of communication.

SPEAKER_06: 21:05

And when did resentment show up for you guys? Do you remember exactly when that was what's behind it?

SPEAKER_07: 21:11

It's just the anxiety that really helped to breed the frustration and the resentment. Because, like I said, she had really bad reflux, and we didn't know it at the time. So she's sleeping and she's choking and she's like moving around a lot. And I would see he's closer to the light. So I'm like, Can you turn on the light? And he's moving so and I'm like, Can you turn on the light? So it's like feeling like you don't have a sense of urgency for what's going on with our child. Because at the time we didn't know it was reflux, it literally looked like seizure-like symptoms. So I'm like, Can you turn on the light? Hurry up. And he's moving slow. He's like, I just woke up, and I'm like, I don't care. So that resentment started because I'm like, Why aren't you? This is our child. Why aren't you moving fast? What's going on? Hello. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 21:54

So in those moments, someone has to remain calm.

SPEAKER_07: 21:57

Yeah, no, no. Postpartum, it was not me.

SPEAKER_03: 21:59

So don't in those crisis moments, someone has to remain calm. Like everyone can't be like, oh, the ship's on fire. Someone has to steal the ship. So in those moments, you may think like he's like, you know, being laissez faire. But if you change your perspective a little bit, you may see that he's probably just trying to build some more confidence that we're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_07: 22:18

Yeah. I see it now. Cause the whole thing, when they say the newborn trenches, it is the trenches. It's just anything. She's so small, anything could happen. I see it clearly now, but in the moment, you can't see it from their perspective. You can't see anything clearly. All you it's like a one-track thing. All I see is my there's something wrong with my baby, and I need to know and I need to fix it now. Yeah. And everybody needs to be on my time. Right. Whoever's here needs to be moving. You gotta get the program.

SPEAKER_06: 22:46

Yeah. Were there some well-intended things that were happening that you think made things worse?

SPEAKER_03: 22:54

It's a good one. I would have to say uh helping.

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

Literally just doing anything.

SPEAKER_03: 23:01

Yeah, doing anything. I think I think if I did less on purpose, it would have been more helpful. It was just a crazy thing to say. But I think because I was trying to do so much, I was spreading myself thin. So I feel like maybe if I focused more on a few things than trying to do everything.

SPEAKER_00: 23:22

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03: 23:23

How about you guys?

SPEAKER_00: 23:24

I got the opposite. So I I got like there was that. Um, I think for my situation though, it was a little different because my resentment started early because my relationship started facing issues and a different life level of betrayal at the same time that I was going through postpartum. So I was fighting me going crazy because I was postpartum, but also me going crazy because my man had lost his mind. So it's kind of like I was fighting two different battles at the same time, and they were solo battles because I'm not big on speaking on what's negatively happening in my relationship while I'm still in that relationship. Because I feel like when you talk to your family and your friends and you tell them things that are wrong, it's easier for you to forgive, but then they're gonna hold on to that. So I was suffering in silence with everything that I was going through.

SPEAKER_01: 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:19

And I think that was, I think that's what really spiked the rage. Because I'm like, at some point I gotta get this out. Like I'm filled with fire and I don't know how to get this out. But for me, I think what would have been what he probably would have thought was something helpful was just leaving me alone. Just letting you take care of the babies, letting you take care of the house, letting you run the ship however you want. I get in where I fit in, I eat whatever you make, I stay out of your way. If I drop something on the floor, I pick it up really quick. And so that's what he was doing. But it irritated me. You're out doing this, you're out doing that, you come home, you sleep. Whenever I leave you with the kids, you all sleep. Like you never have to deal with the blowout, you never have to do anything insane. I come back in time to feed, so you're not even doing that. Like it was just really, really frustrating. But I was hard on him because I was mad at him. So I don't think that I was able to give him grace with the parenting side of things because I was so upset at the partner side of things, if that makes any sense. So he never really had a fair chance during postpartum just because of decisions he made.

SPEAKER_06: 25:22

Well, yeah, that's adding those elements to a relationship. You're already going through a difficult time. Probably not the wisest thing.

SPEAKER_00: 25:29

So in the end, I think I just really needed help, but I had already created such a system with how I took care of the girls that he just again, it just I fed them at the I tandem fed because I was I nursed both. So I would like do the whole mama chimp thing and like latch them both, and then I would immediately go pump so that I can have this, and then I would clean and then I'd prep dinner. Like I had this whole thing going that when it was finally time for me to go back to work and for him to help, he was just like, I'm not doing all that. So I was like, Okay, cool, I'll hire nannies. So I did, yeah. Like that was it's insane. He's still home. And I'm like paying people to take care of the children. And that's the next level right there.

SPEAKER_06: 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:10

I just really wanted my babies to be taken care of a certain way, and he kept letting me know that that was overwhelming for him, and so I didn't want to overwhelm him. I just solved the problem, which again just devalued him in the relationship, which I understand now.

SPEAKER_03: 26:24

So it's crazy. You said my babies I say that all the time, and it infuriates him.

SPEAKER_00: 26:29

I know I know I know. And what I'm saying is at the time, that's the way I had to operate because I didn't see a partner, I didn't see help, I didn't see anything. He was literally just like part of the furniture or completely absent. Like he was not hands-on. We get it, guys. We know y'all would do the whole animalistic thing. We get it. But we're saying in the moment, you're you just don't get it. He was like, So you just don't get it. It's different. It's different. Not not saying dads are not like 50%.

SPEAKER_07: 26:57

I get it. Like he was like, babe, you know, like she she's mine. So I'm like, Yeah, but like let's really talk about this. How much time did you spend? What nine months came three weeks early. So I had like 37 weeks and two days, and you had like she was supposed to come.

SPEAKER_06: 27:12

What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_00: 27:12

Because the way you're looking I wish there was video so you guys can see Vladimir's.

SPEAKER_03: 27:17

Yeah, yeah, because we had to deal with hands are crossed seven weeks. You had to carry the baby, but then we have to carry you.

SPEAKER_07: 27:23

Yeah, I felt bad for him. I have apologized so many times.

SPEAKER_03: 27:26

If you do it right, if you get a if you get a if you get a gentleman who's gonna be there, like I said, like you know, go to all the the the doctor's appointments, go get the you know, the baby pictures and you know the 3D imaging and the the shower and not just be in the background in the shower, you know, be a present figure and do do the things, then yeah, dude. Come on now.

SPEAKER_07: 27:47

Giving him a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03: 27:48

You're taking a man out of his element, like you're asking us to do a lot in those 37 weeks already.

SPEAKER_07: 27:55

He I gave him his flowers from the beginning. There was one night I when they say you start crying over random things in pregnancy, I was like, Yeah, whatever. I cried over orange juice. I don't even drink orange juice like that. So he went out at 11 o'clock at night and brought the biggest orange juice I've seen in my life. So from then on, I'm I gave him his flowers the whole way. I was a menace. Nothing made sense. It's nothing made sense.

SPEAKER_03: 28:18

Look how crazy that man was looking through the streets at three in the morning lugging a gallon of orange juice.

SPEAKER_07: 28:22

No, it was like it was huge.

SPEAKER_00: 28:24

I'm like, where do you even get this? What kind of sacrifice is that?

SPEAKER_06: 28:27

And again, I wish you guys could experience the only the only thing that's open at that time is in the hood. Exactly. So we got a wrist killed. We got a risk killed.

SPEAKER_00: 28:37

Public.

SPEAKER_06: 28:39

Public kill. I mean, so for him to get some OJ at two in the morning.

SPEAKER_00: 28:44

And a big one.

SPEAKER_06: 28:46

He had to go to the stores. He's got the little stores where there's bars and you gotta order the shit from the sidewalk. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03: 28:53

That wasn't even the words like I got to negotiate 50% of the job.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

We did start the episode saying that it's insane. It makes no sense. We cannot explain it. You're trying to make us put logic into this insane behavior. Like you're gonna win.

SPEAKER_07: 29:08

You don't even feel the hormone shift, it just snaps.

SPEAKER_06: 29:10

It's just boom, and it's like did you feel that did you at any point did you stop and kind of look at you in at yourselves and said, Yeah, I don't recognize myself, I don't know what's happening here.

SPEAKER_00: 29:19

That happened, especially if you flip out about something that doesn't make sense. Like I'm yelling at you about you eating the fourth Hot Pocket because I was on my third and I was dead set on finishing the fourth. Bless your heart. We only had four. I ate three, you ate one, and I'm ready to like rip you to shreds. And then he's like, Okay, fine, you can have the rest. Bless him. And I'm like, You can have it.

SPEAKER_07: 29:41

Yeah, I was in therapy the whole time, even before I got pregnant. So it all wouldn't go off on him, but in that therapist office on the channel, I'm just like, he did this and he did this, and I was so sick of him. And then she's like, Okay, so uh style it back. Yeah, and how can we have handled that better?

SPEAKER_06: 29:57

Mm-hmm. What thoughts did you have during this postpartum depression period that actually scared you?

SPEAKER_07: 30:06

So I didn't have any like what if I wasn't here thoughts, but I did have, did I make a mistake? Thought, should I have waited? Do I really want this? Did I I've always said that I wanted kids, but now I'm just like, did I just like really have baby fever? Do I just want to? Yeah. Like what's up? I don't know. Oh, this is really happening. And then I work at a hospital, so you know that's a safe haven. After I think a certain time you can bring your baby with nothing happening. Like, should I just bring her? What if I brought her? Oh my gosh, then everybody knows I was pregnant and I'm showing up without a baby. Like that was scaring me because I have had self-doubt before, but this was like deep second guessing everything I've ever wanted. Because I've always wanted to be a mom. And it was just a lot of stress on me, too, because I'm getting another degree. So I was in school. I was working full-time, going to school, coming home and pregnant, and then planning a baby shower. And then after giving birth unexpectedly, like I literally went to work that day. My full shift went to Walgreens because I had to get something. Went home, took a nap, and next thing I know, my water broke. So it's like I didn't even get a chance to really mentally prepare for it because she came so early. Okay. So now all these questions and doubts are coming because I for me, I'm a planner. I plant like it had to be July 7th. So that gave me time to I'm a new mom, I know. I was mentally preparing myself for that. So once that got derailed, it's like my mind just went other places. It was like a chain reaction.

SPEAKER_06: 31:48

Got it.

SPEAKER_00: 31:49

Um I think I had several moments where I would just look at him and I'm like, I get why people end up on snapped. And so I need to not even joking. I there is times that he would be laying next to me and I'm like, get up and get out. Just go go into the living room because I'm feeling hot.

SPEAKER_03: 32:10

I might for real.

SPEAKER_00: 32:11

I'm I'm just I just need you, I just need you to get away from me. Like he just had to steer clear. And I think I had that one episode where I just completely lost it and broke everything, and I was screaming, I was upset. And it was to the point where I stayed in Tennessee for a little over a month, and I just needed to get away. I didn't necessarily even need the help because I took care of the kids the entire time by myself, but I just needed to get away from him. I felt myself getting there and I couldn't think of anything else, so I had to get away from him. So that was probably the scariest thing.

SPEAKER_06: 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:43

I'm not even capable, I can't even kill a spider.

SPEAKER_06: 32:45

How did shame show up through it throughout all of this?

SPEAKER_07: 32:48

Social media, other moms, family expectations, shame and just a little bit of anger crept in when I told my family. So my mom's side is Jamaican and we're very big on education. So I have I already have a degree in biology, so I got into KSU to get a degree in nursing.

SPEAKER_06: 33:07

For Jamaicans, that that's not even enough.

SPEAKER_07: 33:09

It's not.

SPEAKER_06: 33:10

Yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_07: 33:11

I need to be a full-blown doctor, but we're we're good with nurse.

SPEAKER_06: 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 33:14

And I found out that I got into KSU first, and then I found out I was pregnant. And I'll never forget, I was at my mom's house, and it was around Thanksgiving. And they hadn't they hadn't met my boyfriend yet. But like they knew of him, but they haven't they hadn't met him. I did the same thing. I was like, hey dad, I gave me this guy, and we're pregnant with twins. Listen, I tried to, I still think my delivery was great. The audience was not. But they they knew of him and they knew I was serious with somebody, but they hadn't actually met him. So we go to my mom's house, my aunt's there, my mom's there. I'm like, hey, I'll guess what? I got into KSU, I'm gonna go be a nurse. Everybody's super excited, like, yeah. And I was like, also, I'm having a baby. And I kid you not, you could hear, you could hear a pin drop. They're just like, oh, yeah. The shame and anger setting. Because I'm like, at the at that point, I had just turned 28. So I'm like, I'm I'm grown, I have a degree, I had all these things that I wanted. I wanted to be out of my mom's house living on my own. I've been doing that for years. I wanted a degree, I've had that for years, working in the field that I wanted to work in, and I am at the hospital that I wanted to work in. So I had all these things, and it just felt like for them, it was like, oh, really? It it felt like the shame crept in when I felt like it wasn't as important or like I was doing something wrong. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00: 34:43

I went I had sound that had been talking to me. Him was sitting over there talking to everybody else on these podcast mics, he would not talk to me. I was spiraling. That was the only person I didn't care how anybody else felt. Oh, it was so hard. Postpartum shame, no. I think the only thing was I just it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing not being able to control my feelings, like just completely spiraling all the time. But only one person experienced that.

SPEAKER_03: 35:10

So my wife did get a lot of comments, judgments, judgmental looks, and you know, jabs and that from her family um about what she was doing, like you know, whether to lay him on his back or on his stomach, you know, just like parenting things, like mothering things. So I think um I don't want to speak for her, but I definitely saw it, and I I think it definitely played a role and probably you know, lingered in in her uh postpartum for a while.

SPEAKER_07: 35:40

Outside voices are starting to affect me because before I was breastfeeding her and everything, I had it, and then she lost a lot of weight, so we had to start supplementing with formula and bottles before I wanted to. So she was and she goes to daycare, so she was getting used to the bottles and weaning herself off of me before I wanted her to. So naturally, people find out you have a baby, like, oh, are you breastfeeding? I'm like, Yeah, I'm doing first. It was like, yeah, I'm breastfeeding all the time because I was. Now it's like I'm breastfeeding and formula, but now she's on just formula, and the looks that I get where I'm just like, Yeah, she takes formula, she yeah, she's in daycare, and just like, well, you know, the amount of times of her breast is best is insane. It's actually feds best exactly, but it's just like that shame that comes at how dare just how dare I not breastfeed her. And I'm just like, you don't even know crying in the closet because I'm trying and she doesn't want to. I mean, I was pumping all the time trying to get it, and it's affected.

SPEAKER_00: 36:36

That probably would be my thing because I I didn't realize that stress affected your milk supply. And I was going through the situation that I was going through in my relationship, and my milk supply completely stopped. And one night I couldn't get more than an ounce out for two kids, and I spiraled, and I remember I was like, I need formula, like I don't I don't even know what formula to give them because they've not ever had any of that. Like, I don't I've I they latched in the hospital. I didn't know what to do. It was awful. I had to hurry up and do research at like 10 o'clock at night. It was just insane. But I just I had the opportunity to nurse. And so I nursed because I could, but if I wouldn't have been able to, I wouldn't have not given like formula or been weird about it because people are saying like it was a lot of shame from outside people seeping in about the breastfeeding.

SPEAKER_06: 37:23

How did you start healing?

SPEAKER_00: 37:25

I got out of the house. Oh, for sure. I had to go back to work, and that's when I realized that I was losing my mind because now I was around like normal people, I have a schedule, the nanny's got the babies, like I cannot be a mom for a couple of hours, and then something would happen that I would have reacted crazy to, and this time I'm like, oh that was insane. Now I'm getting it. Like I'm starting to have a clear mind, is starting to work, and I can separate babies from man. It's not like all one big battle. Um, but getting out definitely helps, and then self-care. It sounds like I mean everybody says self-care fixes the world, but like seriously, taking the time to do my hair, take a long shower, play the music that I like, touch grass, always be outside in the sun, have a hobby, have friends that don't have kids, so you don't always have to talk about kids. Like get out and do something. Like, I just needed to not be in like full-on mom mode 24-7 because I was super controlling. Like I couldn't let the rains, I didn't want anybody to do anything.

SPEAKER_07: 38:26

Like my boyfriend was like, Look, you've been inside too long, you gotta go outside. So I just walked our apartment, our apartment complex. She was born in June, so that was great. The sun was there, but also like when I went back to work, they had like this ride night at Six Flags, and we had my mom watch her for the night, and we just no, I lied, my aunt watched her for the night, and we just went to Six Flags, and I actually just got to be there with him because we used to always go on dates and everything. I think that started making me feel like me. Yeah, but also the fact that I actually got to wear normal clothes at some point because I was telling Naya at some point all I could fit was athleisure, and that was really hard. So the fact that like my jeans finally fit and we can go out and we can do things, I think that definitely started making me feel better once I started feeling like yourself, yeah again.

SPEAKER_06: 39:14

I would gather that there's a piece of you that you feel like you've sacrificed and you change your body, everything changes for everyone else's benefit but yours.

SPEAKER_00: 39:23

Yeah, and don't and give yourself grace. I think that during that season, you're trying to just fix the problem, and because you feel so overwhelmed, overstimulated, and crazy, you're just like, I just need to fix this. It's okay that you don't have a solution right now. You're gonna grow out of this postpartum season, you're gonna get your mind right again, you're gonna get what you're gonna get your body back, everything's gonna be fine. Just give your I wish I would have just told myself, just chill out. It's you're just having a bad day.

SPEAKER_06: 39:51

How did postpartum change the way you view motherhood, partnership, or womanhood altogether?

SPEAKER_00: 39:59

I will. Be uh very careful with choosing partners. Oh, for sure. Um I don't think he is a horrible person. I think that we're just not compatible in that way. But I also think that a lot more conversations and research needs to be done before just having kids. We were obviously really irresponsible, nothing about our situation was planned, but we just didn't have conversations. Like there are things that we talked about after the kids were born that we have opposing views on, but we already have the kids. These conversations never even came up. Like, this is not I definitely would have more conversation, but I have that experience now, so I know what to talk about. But I've said this on previous pods, I didn't think that I would ever be a mom. So I always wanted to be one, but I didn't think that I could physically carry them. So I didn't, I don't, I don't think that I necessarily want more children, but I definitely would be more careful and I definitely have more appreciation for moms and babies. Like that's where my heart is. I love motherhood and I suffered during pregnancy plus part of them sucked, but um, for what you get in the end, I think that it's totally worth it. Okay. We should there should be medicine for it.

SPEAKER_07: 41:11

My view on like my partner is just he is just the best thing ever created. From the moment we found out up until now, he's just been the best. Like always uplifted me, made sure I was okay, let me know I was doing everything, right? Super understanding because I didn't know what was going on, he didn't know what was going on, but still supported me through it. Like my pregnancy, amazing. Oh, I had a ball. He made sure to still have that fun that we were having, just like pregnancy version, like even New Year's Eve, like he's drinking champagne and everything, and I had my big glass of sparkling cider, just still including me, just amazing. The communication, the way we work is we're just a team with everything. Yeah, so what I can't do, you'll do. And we come together, like, do we like this? Do we not like this? If we have opposing views, how can we meet in the middle? But we also, from the moment we found out, because we found out early. I think I was like maybe two weeks pregnant, but maybe three. From that moment, we're like, How do you want to raise her? What are your views? What do you want? How do you see your family going? And we always kept checking in throughout the pregnancy, and then when she was here, has anything changed? And I think that for sure helped. I just look at him, like he's just the best thing ever.

SPEAKER_01: 42:33

Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_07: 42:34

Motherhood, I have a respect for mothers. I also have a little bit of a beef with some others before me because I just feel like everyone talks about like the basic things, like, oh, you push out the baby and everything, and this is hard, but they don't really talk about things in postpartum. I had no idea what baby blues were, I thought it was just postpartum depression. I didn't know about like you know about the waking up every two to three hours, but they don't tell you about like some people can't breastfeed, or if you do breastfeed, it's hard. I had to see a lactation consultant. So did I, but yeah, I also have a respect for them too, because in the midst of all this, you still have to be everything to everybody, and you slowly lose yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 43:20

Yeah, so the respect comment about the 90s. I feel like a lot of mothers wasn't doing all that. So props to them for figuring out keeping us alive without without all of that.

SPEAKER_00: 43:30

While going crazy and nobody even knew you were crazy.

SPEAKER_06: 43:32

I'm guessing that a lot of women, um, and even to this day, would be expected to survive postpartum. Yeah, you are quietly and so that you don't make anybody else uncomfortable. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_07: 43:44

So maybe that's why or like even talking about the not so glamorous parts about it, you're ashamed because then it makes it seem like you're ungrateful. Like, how dare you say something bad about motherhood? It's supposed to be this amazing thing when it is, but there are also things that need to be talked about.

SPEAKER_00: 44:03

Also, don't I think that there's a lot of projection too on postpartum. Once you hear postpartum, it's just always very, very negative. There are some people that have a beautiful experience, and I think a lot of mothers will be like, you just wait till this. You better get your sleep now. And it's like, no mom is getting great sleep pregnant.

SPEAKER_07: 44:17

That you just wait is crazy. Or if you're happy, they're just like, well, just wait until this, and then you get there, and like, yeah, well, just wait until this. I had great sleepers.

SPEAKER_00: 44:27

I slept training, I did sleep training, so I didn't lose much sleep. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 44:31

I don't play.

SPEAKER_00: 44:32

It was fine. Uh after six weeks, we were sleeping long stretches.

SPEAKER_07: 44:36

Listen, we and my family can attest to this. At night, at the stroke of nine, she's rubbing her eyes and everything, ready to go to sleep. I worked hard for that. She has her afterdaycare nap at five. If it's on the weekends, I know for a fact, I'm like, babe, at 11, she's gonna be tired. She's sleepy. So with me, he would come home and we'll be in the bed knocked out. No, no, we'll be in the she'll be in her bassinet. We we work we work out.

SPEAKER_00: 45:00

She sleeps far away from me.

SPEAKER_07: 45:02

She wasn't, she wasn't, she wasn't on her stomach or anything in my bed. She was in her bassinet. That would be crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I did lie about that at the doctor a couple times. All the time, every time. All the time. Is she sleeping on her back in the bassinet? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:14

No, lady, I'm getting up four times and taking both babies out, and I'm nursing both and then putting both back in. It was just that wouldn't have not even that.

SPEAKER_07: 45:23

I'm waking up at two o'clock in the morning. You think I'm gonna sit up there and hold her? No, what we're gonna do is we're just gonna roll and we're just gonna position. Yeah. But when I answer that question, yes, she was always in her ass and every time. She sleeps bad. She sleeps in her I've I've gotten better.

SPEAKER_03: 45:38

I've made sure why is it that bad? It's two things. Um, well, it's a lot of things why it's bad. You literally, when you do that, you the baby's not sleeping on the edge of the bed.

SPEAKER_07: 45:48

Oh no. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03: 45:49

Correct?

SPEAKER_07: 45:50

No.

SPEAKER_03: 45:50

No, no, and then so you put the baby in between y'all two.

SPEAKER_07: 45:54

We have a lot of space between us.

SPEAKER_03: 45:56

Even worse.

SPEAKER_07: 45:58

No, why? Not me and the baby.

SPEAKER_03: 46:00

Even worse.

SPEAKER_07: 46:01

Why?

SPEAKER_03: 46:02

First, you're putting the kid between you and your man, and you're putting even more distance between you and your man every single night.

SPEAKER_07: 46:08

I mean, it's not every single night now. Like she's like, That's torture. No.

SPEAKER_00: 46:12

You missed your wife.

SPEAKER_03: 46:15

No, it's it is okay.

SPEAKER_07: 46:16

I get it. Two things. Put that baby in the crib. No, she sleeps in her crib now, but it's like sometimes she'll wake up in the middle of the night. We're like, okay, she's really fussy. Look, we can just bring her here because she just needs that. But now, 98% of the time she's in her crib. She's in her crib now.

SPEAKER_03: 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:32

Postpartum is really lonely for men, sounds like.

SPEAKER_06: 46:35

Finish with your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03: 46:38

Holding the baby. Uh, physically holding the baby. A lot of people know this. The baby's head is very malleable at this time. You're gonna see a lot of kids nowadays, like they've been sleeping with their mom, their head's gonna be lopsided. Just mark my words. You think I'm kidding? Lopsided as generation.

SPEAKER_07: 46:54

I was told that her head is in the front of the baby. That's the lopsided generation.

SPEAKER_00: 46:58

Her head is growing beautifully. You better put that baby in the crib. She's in the crib. It's snuggle up.

SPEAKER_07: 47:03

What's crazy is he also had to tell me, I had to dial it back. This is how I know I made out the newborn transition because he told me this and I did not get upset. He told me that I tend to hover and that he needs his daddy baby time. So I kind of have to dial it back because I did find myself hovering a little bit, just making sure she's okay. She's perfectly fine, but like just checking. Just had to be there. He's like, Look, yeah. So he'll give me a look and I'm like, Daddy, daddy baby time. He's like, Yeah, and I gotta disappear.

SPEAKER_03: 47:35

Yeah, that is very important for the dad during that time to feel like he's being a contributing member of the family. Um, because you just become if you don't do that, if you don't let the dad do that, they just become mommy number two. They don't become a dad, they don't get to feel like they're being a dad. So if he feels like if he's the diaper is unsloppy and crooked, let him learn from that. Don't correct it.

SPEAKER_00: 47:59

Let him clean them up.

SPEAKER_03: 48:00

If he's if he's um it sounds crazy, but you gotta have to you have to let your the dad be a dad. You have to let them learn them lessons. They're not gonna do research. Yeah, it's an on-the-job training for us.

SPEAKER_00: 48:12

Were you helpful? You didn't answer anything. Were you helpful during postpartum? Do you think? What do you think you could have done better? Well, you have like different range of ages, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 48:22

How were you in the 90s? I I I was always hands-on. All right, this is this is a question for all three of you. And we're gonna start with you, Vlad, because you, unlike most dads, understand a lot. And you're at that generation. How old are you now? I'll be 36 in a few days. Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00: 48:39

OMG, you're kind of old. Happy early birthday. And how long?

SPEAKER_06: 48:43

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00: 48:44

How long went your birthday?

SPEAKER_06: 48:46

A few days. You can speak for the older generation a little bit, you know, guys in their 40s and up who are still having kids. Yeah. You can speak to these younger guys because you're like right under age where it just in between. You know, you can talk to both generations comfortably.

SPEAKER_03: 49:00

It's funny because a lot of guys my age right now are having kids. Like the mid-30s, they're having their first ones in their like mid-30s, which is probably the right stride to have everything happen, is your mid-30s. You settle down. Men become more confident and define themselves more clearly after 30, 33, 35.

SPEAKER_01: 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 49:21

Agreed.

SPEAKER_06: 49:22

So agreed. So if you can speak to fathers and husbands listening to this, what's your message to them? Oh, for postpartum for postpartum.

SPEAKER_03: 49:32

Oh, read your partner. Try to read their mind. Try. It's gonna be impossible. Women want you to be a mind reader. If you're clicked in with your partner, you guys are good friends, you guys are good friends before the pregnancy. Yeah, try to read their mind. You know what they like, you know, you know what their favorite candies are. You know when they look at something they might be wanting to pick it up. Go ahead, pick it up for them. Try to be all of those things. Ask them to communicate to you and know that they will not be receptive to your communication. That's sounds valid.

SPEAKER_01: 50:03

Sounds so fun.

SPEAKER_06: 50:05

Sounds so awesome. And then we still gotta go out and face the world. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. All right. At 6 30 sharp. Yes. Got it. Got it.

SPEAKER_00: 50:12

After waking up with the baby fast at five.

SPEAKER_06: 50:16

It's easy to say, take care of yourself, take a couple of days, take a day, do self-care. Yeah. Go do what you like to do for the day. Hit the gym, do whatever. It's hard to it's easy to say that, but the reality is sometimes they have to work a second job. And sometimes those things, like no habits that we have is free, except maybe fishing. Yep. Right? So like even that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:35

Fishing supplies costs.

SPEAKER_06: 50:37

Yeah. I mean, you should pick up worms. Oh, period. I mean, I don't know. I guess we're going fishing later. I don't know how I don't know how it works. You know, but I just figured worms are free.

SPEAKER_00: 50:47

Um, all the bait and everything.

SPEAKER_06: 50:49

Um, but that you need to find something there's costs involved and there's time involved, and God forbid you leave. From what I'm hearing, you might be feeling super guilty about well, I left her alone. I get a break. She doesn't get a break. So how dare I get a break? Yep.

SPEAKER_07: 51:05

But I think that's where communication comes in too. Yeah. Just say, like, hey, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I just need this amount of time, I'll be back. And then trade off, like, okay, I got the baby, you do what you have to do.

SPEAKER_03: 51:17

So the mom can do that.

unknown: 51:19

The mom can do that.

SPEAKER_03: 51:20

Yes. The mom, like I was saying, the mom can the the mom can communicate that. The dad can't. You can't be like, yo, I need a break, I'm gonna do this. Because we're immediately gonna be judged like we're not doing enough already.

SPEAKER_01: 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:30

We're we're already behind the eight ball. We're all medic. Yeah, we already feel you know what I mean? Like you didn't carry nothing. Are you crazy? All them nine months, you didn't carry nothing. Now you need a break. What break you need?

SPEAKER_07: 51:41

Results may vary if you need to. Results may vary.

SPEAKER_03: 51:45

I'll say during that break with this big time. I had a lot of hobbies before pregnancy. I was, you know, in the video game. I was, you know, I had a racing simulator. I was racing all the time. I mean, I love to cook even more. I was doing more cooking than I did before. I was, you know, I had uh real car interests. I was going to racetracks. Like I had I had my hobbies. And I just like you said, you I would begin to feel guilty during that time, even if they were asleep.

SPEAKER_06: 52:11

Yeah, because you're out here playing video games.

SPEAKER_03: 52:13

Even if they're asleep, because at any moment, uh like they could wake up and I'm I'm I'm back on the clock, and I'm back on the clock inadequate, not doing enough.

SPEAKER_06: 52:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 52:22

So your advice for them somehow, yeah, some kind of way, it's just keep their mind stay focused. Read their mind, don't even worry about you until it's all over.

SPEAKER_01: 52:30

Just it's just and and hopefully it's over in a year.

SPEAKER_06: 52:35

And if you can survive that. Weather storm.

SPEAKER_03: 52:37

And what I mean by don't worry about you, know who you are and don't forget.

SPEAKER_01: 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 52:41

But just put you have to put yourself on pause for a minute because the mother, if if the mom is is bugged out and she's not stable, you're gonna be trying to pick up the pieces behind her, and she's not gonna appreciate that you're picking up her pieces either.

SPEAKER_06: 52:57

Yeah, I'll say this as a man, when all of this is going on and you're weathering the storm, what you need to remember is who you had and who she was. Right. Yeah, right. So then is she worth the sacrifice? Because that's exactly what all these go to that right, go back out of your place and just go, yeah, she's worth all this. This is temporary.

SPEAKER_07: 53:16

There's for sure light at the end of the tunnel. It's just you're just in the midst of it right now, but it does get better.

SPEAKER_06: 53:22

So, what advice do you ladies have for for men specifically?

SPEAKER_07: 53:26

We risk our lives to have this baby, but as soon as the baby comes out, that's when the hormones start shifting, and you don't feel like yourself in your own body. So just try to be more understanding that the baby is new to this world, but now this person is new to I'm new to this world too. Because I'm a whole person that I wasn't before. Just have a bird's eye view, just try to remember who I was and just really help me get back there.

SPEAKER_03: 53:51

That's a good ask. That was one thing my wife did mention. She did she mentioned that she wanted, you know, find herself again, go back to you know, finding her hobbies again after the fact. She felt like she couldn't during pregnancy. I mean, I we did a little during pregnancy, but the all of her all of her major hobbies she couldn't do while, you know, nursing and you know, on on maternity leave. It's a really tough time for women.

SPEAKER_07: 54:16

And it's it's confusing too, because now you have to try to figure out now that the baby's here, you have to figure out who you are outside of the baby.

SPEAKER_01: 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 54:23

Because I knew who I was before. I could tell you exactly who I was. Now I'm just starting to, I'm not exactly the same, but I'm more of myself than I was before.

SPEAKER_03: 54:33

I don't say speak for all guys, but I didn't want to see her as a different. I think she did, or like mothers do, they want to distinctly see themselves as a different person afterwards. I don't think we want to, and I think we end up seeing it because of all of the things that happened. We I think we still we haven't forgotten who you are, but we're like, yo, who this is something else. Um but we don't we don't wanna forget, we don't want to we we still love that first person.

SPEAKER_00: 55:03

If I had to give advice, I would say don't take anything personal. She's losing it. She's quite literally losing it. For sure. Um and she might not be losing it, you might have a great experience. Please don't think all postpartum experiences are awful. But if you're in if you're in the trenches, there are a lot of women that can develop PTSD from pregnancy alone. And so I think going straight from that to something else as traumatic, you have to understand how much that does to the body and to the mind, to the soul, like everything. And so rebuilding after something so traumatic, from my experience, I would say. I was telling Asia earlier, I felt like I was always surrounded by people, but I always felt alone. It's something about feeling seen and not just having people there to do things for you. Um so what I would say as a partner, just be there. Don't sit there and try to remind her of all the things that she's doing differently or what she said, or this is why I don't do this, don't be combative. This is not the time. Just be the pillar of your family. Like Vlad said, just keep your head down. It'll turn around. I swear it does. The thing is that doesn't last forever. The newborn trenches don't last forever. The baby not being able to hold their head up doesn't last forever. Being panicked about what type of formula is good doesn't last forever. Them wearing diapers doesn't last forever. Like it's literally a blink of an eye, and I'm so upset because I was so helicopter mom that I wasn't in the moment. I was just so focused on keeping my structure that I feel like it all just passed. Now my kids are five, and I'm like, what I would do to just sit in a day of you being like six or seven months and just enjoy the day and not care about how things were getting done. I would say, as a man, while you're going through that, if you're gonna be keeping your head down, do whatever you can do to be helpful, but also do what you need to do to get right on your own. So you need to be maybe hobbies are not the best thing, but have good counsel, right? Try to find men that have older children, maybe read more, get into different things to where get into therapy. If you can get into therapy, maybe you can't go physically, but get onto better help. Like try to figure something out to where you can be okay. Because I think that if you're already struggling with um low self-esteem or certain insecurities, and then you get into the season where your woman is no longer just like beefing you up, it can feel very like personal attack every single day.

SPEAKER_06: 57:20

What do you want to say to a woman listening right now who might feel broken or alone in postpartum?

SPEAKER_00: 57:27

You're gonna be okay, Mama.

SPEAKER_07: 57:28

It gets better. It doesn't seem like it in that moment, and it seems like everything is just going wrong or crashing down. But take pictures with your kids.

SPEAKER_00: 57:37

Oh, don't just take pictures of your kids. Get in the pictures, take pictures so that you can see. And also, I leave it there. Yes, record yourself. So if you feel like your back is against the wall and you're one of those people that feel like you're surrounded by people and you feel alone, put the camera up, record it. And I've been doing this since the girls were about one, I would say. And you set it up and you let out all of those extreme feelings. So if you need to curse, if you need to say something offensive, if you need to just like let it out, even if you know it's crazy, just let it all out. And it's something about seeing yourself work through that. So watch it back in a month, watch it back on the same day next year, and then you'll see that like that was not that big of a deal, and it didn't have to trickle into other people. And you can see yourself develop, you can see yourself grow, you can see yourself come out of that funk, and it kind of like pushes you to get out of it a little bit quicker when you can watch yourself tweak even from 30 days ago. So I would advise that. I still do it to this day, and it helps me calm down all the time. So I would suggest that.

SPEAKER_07: 58:35

Also, just love every second and any and every minute of it. I was looking at pictures because we I take a lot of pictures with my daughter, and I was looking at it, I'm like, I don't even remember that baby. Like she was so little and pink, and now imagine when she's walking into kindergarten all by herself. Man, now she she's at the point where she has facial recognition, so she's just seeing people and smiling. And I'm just like, where did my baby go? I asked her to go to sleep, and she was shaking her head no because she watches Miss Rachel. And I'm just like, Where I've been here the whole time. I've been with you. Just savor every moment. Yeah, but it really does go by super fast. I'm planning a first birthday party right now, and around this time last year, I was planning a baby shower, and it seems like it was yesterday.

SPEAKER_06: 59:21

Yeah, yeah. Okay, this is a good place to end it. I thank you for the conversations for opening up and being vulnerable. I'm really appreciative, and I think a lot of fun. Yeah, a lot of people will learn from this. Yes, and if nothing else, it gives you um, I guess, a way of releasing.

SPEAKER_07: 59:37

Yeah. If you want any more mommy content, let me know. I have like she's like, I'm in my pregnancy, birth, the things you want to know before giving birth because they don't highlight it.

SPEAKER_06: 59:46

Yeah, I'm here. Yeah. A lot of men need to know about what's going on with their women and things that they don't talk about because I think a lot of women don't share what's happening. They just the they share when it's too late. Like then you're mad and you're angry and you're just Going off and he doesn't understand what's happening. Right. But yes, thanks for being here. And Vlad, you had very wise and valuable input, man. Thank you. Thank you. You volunteered to do the the outro.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:12

Yeah, I haven't um I don't know if I'm fully prepared. Please support us by following the show. Well, hang on, hang on a second.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:18

You started? It started?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:20

Yeah. Alright, go for it, brother. President Obama. And uh you've been listening to one of the greatest podcasts in America. Please support us by following the show. Leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you very much for listening to people on America.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:38

We'll catch you on the next week. Again, we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day. Manhood matters. We're out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:48

That was really good. There's the real issues that got me.