SPEAKER_01: 0:00

You hear a lot of creators on social media when they're seeking instant gratification, they're slowly losing themselves. You're not proud really of what you are. You're just proud of the reaction you get, how many likes you get on an Instagram post, how many people comment on your post, how many shares reposts, how many people are gonna see what this is. But people don't care about how you got there or how you feel behind the scenes. You're the one that's taking that toll because you're trying to put a persona on social media that's not even you. So where is your value?

SPEAKER_05: 0:31

Thank you for joining us for this amazing conversation. Today we are talking about being seen, whether it be on social media or at work, as opposed to being valued, truly being appreciated for who you are, showing up as your authentic self. And if I were to ask you which one matters more, the answer seems obvious, but is it really? And today we're having a conversation with two young men in their 20s, my son and my nephew, and my daughter who is 27, asking them to consider what's more important to them, to their community, whether it be on social media or in real life, what impact this has on their psyche, on their mental health, and how they plan to navigate through all of it. But this is also for us, you know, the millennials, the Gen X. We're not immune to any of it, we're impacted by it as well. And if you're not already following the show, hit that follow button and please share it with at least one person. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

In the living room, find this voice, forced all together, making a choice, take a life, great new shit with a coke, black man teach you where the keynote sponsor, physical strife, hustle, heart, the pulse of life, race, love, and the entrepreneurs, cryo toe, echoes, and find time, experts and friends, powerful blend, tackling issues that never end from our perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02

What does being seen mean to you personally? Okay, the first thing that pops into my head, immediately I think of social media. Because nowadays, the term I feel like being seen means just putting yourself out there, not in the way of like putting yourself in the middle of a crowd, but as in you just want people to see what you're doing, just wanting to be a part of something.

SPEAKER_05: 2:24

As people struggle well into their 30s, 40s, and even 50s with identity, who they truly are. Being seen is really being authentic. It's being seen in a way that no one else sees you. Does that resonate with you guys as well?

SPEAKER_06: 2:39

When I hear you see me or I felt seen, people knowing the right side of you. So not what they see on social media and what they hear from friends or whatever. It's actually knowing the real you, your real intention, knowing your real character, being able to defend you in rooms that you're not in. I would more so lean that way. I wouldn't believe anything I see on social media anyway.

SPEAKER_05: 3:00

We know it's hauled. Maybe not, yeah, maybe not all of it, but like I'm gonna say easily 90% of it is trash. And I'm guilty of it. I catch myself doing things and I do it for social media. You have no idea how many things that I record, and then I go, This is not really who I am. It's silly. I never post. This is why it's like there's almost nothing on my page because if someone else hasn't posted for me, it's not happening because I record it and I go, I feel fake. I feel funny doing this.

SPEAKER_01: 3:25

I hope this is the right question to ask, but do you think we're unintentionally trying to fit in?

unknown: 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

Because trying to fit in is one thing, but unintention, like just wanting to be a part of the crowd just because you feel like that is right in your mind.

SPEAKER_05: 3:36

So here's the thing: we are a tribal species. That's what we are. We do need to belong. That's what kept us safe and kept us alive all these millennia. Right. For example, if you take people who are extreme right or extreme left, okay, you can pluck any one of them out of the crowd and you'll find that you have more in common with that person that you disagree with politically than you have disagreements with. So if you can have these individual conversations, things are very, very different. But at the end of the day, every person wants to belong in a particular group.

SPEAKER_03: 4:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 4:06

Most people. Of course, you have these unicorns. You have people just like doesn't matter what the world thinks, this is me, this is who I am. But that's very, very rare. Right. Intentionally or not, I think that it's just human nature. The question is, what makes sense to you and where is where is the line between you and you just blending in with everyone else?

SPEAKER_06: 4:27

I think it all just comes down to character. Again, being a good person, making good decisions, right is right and wrong is wrong. It doesn't matter really who you're affecting, who you have to lose, what everybody else is saying, you don't always really need that reinsurance or the ego boost. You just, again, you just need to be solid. Your foundation needs to stay the same. But I think sometimes where we get losses, we're just so focused on being seen but by the wrong people. We're wanting to get those words of affirmations from people that don't matter, people that we don't want to be like, people that don't inspire us.

SPEAKER_05: 4:57

So how do you guys at your age determine who those people are that matter or that should matter to you?

SPEAKER_06: 5:02

How do you think reciprocation I think matters? When I was younger, I was just trying to pour, pour, pour. And it I think every relationship is meant to be beneficial for both parties. You sometimes will try to be selfless and you still can be, but at the same time, you don't want to pour from an empty cup. So you want to one, always make sure that everything you're pouring into the people in your circle is overflow. But outside of that, you want to make sure that you're putting fire into someone that's putting fire back into you. So those are the only people that really matter are the people that add to your happiness, add value. They don't keep taking and taking and taking, and then you still give them a voice in what you're doing and considering them and feeling seen.

SPEAKER_05: 5:44

Maybe this is kind of a new term. Shining. What comes to mind when you hear that? Is it confidence or is it showing off?

SPEAKER_01: 5:51

My mind keeps going back. That's uh social media. I keep going back to that because people keep posting like their cars, their house, all their money, they'll have it all on the table spread out. Money spread. Money spread. Is shining supposed to be like what like flexing? Yeah. Flexing, basically, yeah. Okay. We can say flexing instead. Okay. Yeah, I think it's just like just showing what you currently have, but not how you got there.

SPEAKER_05: 6:18

Would that be important to you if someone is going to show what they have, that they show how they got there? Maybe it's kind of like a roadmap in case you want to attempt the same thing.

SPEAKER_04: 6:28

I don't think you're necessarily obliged to. And you're free to show whatever you want, but I just think a sense of humbleness is important.

SPEAKER_06: 6:36

I also think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, right? Because if you're flexing and you're online and you're showing everybody your business, and it's like, oh my God, they're they show every little thing. It's like, oh wow. But then if you're just confident and you're proud of yourself, and that's just your lifestyle and you're just sharing it because it's social media and that's what you do, people are like, oh, they're showing off. They don't have to see every bag, we don't have to see every date they go on, we don't have to see all their achievements. And it's like, why not? So you don't you can tell when somebody's doing too much and when somebody is just proud of their success and showing their progress. There are some people that have their pictures from when they were in middle school all the way through like marriage and kids. They're showing it all. So if it's gotten better for them, they're not necessarily shining or flexing or whatever, but those people get spoken about too, and it's always grouped into the same thing and they're showing off.

SPEAKER_05: 7:22

So two things for me. I talked to a young man the other day, and he basically said that he uses Instagram as his photo album. That's where all his personal stuff goes. He has a business page, he's on LinkedIn, but on Instagram, he's like, it's like a cloud that I'll have all my pictures forever. I'm not sure how safe and true that is, but that's the that's what he's using it for. If someone is posting and they are, even if the intention is not to show off, but if they're showing what they possess, the lifestyle, things that are not accessible to just about everyone. Maybe you're having dinner at a fancy restaurant, you're traveling, you're traveling first class, and you're showing that, and your intention is not to show it off. But if my intention is I'm trying to create a brand and maybe I have a following, I make money from this thing, and it helps to show these things, and that makes sense to me. But if that's not the goal, if you're just, you know, say you have money from real estate and you're not trying to put together a a class or you're not selling an e-book or nothing like that. You're just showing that you drive a very expensive car, live in a nice place, have these awesome trips. If there's no point to it, I kind of think it's a little weird.

SPEAKER_06: 8:32

It can be, but then again, I think perception's important, right? Because it depends on your surrounding. If your following also has fancy cars and also has nice houses and also lunches at places where lunch and a drink is 75 bucks and it's no big deal, and they do that all the time. Nobody's gonna see your post and be like, there he goes again with that same loud car. Because they have a loud car too, and they're also posting it and they're not impressed. It's just regular. So it's when you have a mix of friends and a mix of influence that now you're kind of not insecure, but just hesitant to post certain things because you're considering the masses. And that's I also don't think that you should hide what you're proud of or what you're passionate about and the things that you love, your hobbies, what you collect, because there are people that might not be where you're at and will consider you flexing. You know when you're flexing, because you're usually lying.

SPEAKER_05: 9:19

It's really your stuff, it's not a big deal to show it. The other thing that I find, if we're being totally fair, because you know I have to take this back to my own community.

SPEAKER_02: 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 9:28

When I see white people posting and showing off, no one bats an eye. Exactly. And I'll give you an example. Grant Cardone, who's someone that I admire that has bought his books, I study his course. Come to think of it, no one ever says he's showing off when he talks about nothing but his private jets, you know, how much money he makes in one deal and and the Rolexes and the expensive stuff. No one says he's showing off. But there are a bunch of young brothers and sisters on social media that when they talk about certain things and he they get materialistic, then they get attacked that way.

SPEAKER_06: 10:01

Not impressed by your little car. And it's like, that is not a little car. What is your deal?

SPEAKER_04: 10:05

We're already grouped into a certain ideology, so let's try to flex something of materialism. It's gonna seem as either ignorance or just like focused on the wrong things, you know. For if it was someone of a different race, it would be seen as different, you know. Like you said, it was normal if uh a wealthy white man were to flex the things that he has, his private jets, his cars, his businesses, it's just seen as normal. Correct. His clubs, the clubs that he goes to. But it's different for us because of the the image that we have.

SPEAKER_05: 10:40

Do you think that here in this country, at least, maybe just everywhere, but at least in America for sure, being denied certain things for so long, do you think it plays a part in that ideology?

SPEAKER_04: 10:52

Yes, for sure. We were uh discussing this recently, but we've developed as a culture this distinct victim mentality that just will not leave for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_06: 11:05

And there's separation.

SPEAKER_05: 11:07

Well, again, hang on a second, expound on that a little bit. Because I want to touch on that. What do you mean by that? She was about to take it away.

SPEAKER_06: 11:14

I think just the separation of it all, like we're not against each other. It's like we can never really progress because we're so just like nitpicking our community, but our community is like they're just not being realistic. Stop fighting these tiny, tiny, tiny problems and let's move as a unit. And I think that's what's very frustrating. Like, you will sit, like you said, in on social media and see the brothers and the sisters, they're on there being weird under post and oh, that's how they got this, or they're doing this, but they're not with their kids. Like, you don't care about anybody else's personal life the way that you do these other people that have money, but it's only within your community. Like you're not dragging anyone else, you're not talking about anybody else's family, anybody else's parenting style, anybody else's collector's items. You don't care. You only care when it's us. What frustrates me is the selective rage. It's not if you're upset about it, period, then be upset about it, period. If flexing irritates you, then be upset, period. Don't only be upset when it's someone that has a little bit of melanin. And that's what's infuriating.

SPEAKER_05: 12:14

So crabs in a barrel mindset?

SPEAKER_06: 12:16

Yes. Yeah. Like let's go big. If you're upset, be upset. If you don't like it and you don't have a good taste for it, then it is what it is. I don't like money spreads on white or black men. Put it in your bank account. Who walks around with that much cash? It's not my thing. I don't like cars that literally sound like they're about to explode before they take off. I don't care who jumps out of it. It's not my thing. Yeah, I'm not gonna only be turned off by it when it's someone that looks like me.

SPEAKER_03: 12:40

Right.

SPEAKER_06: 12:41

My opinion is my opinion. And it's just it has nothing to do with skin color. I'm not oblivious to the fact that there is a difference in skin color and there are things that we've gone through that they've not gone through. I understand that, but I don't want to keep retreating back to that when it comes to social media and how we value ourselves and how we speak about ourselves and just how hard-body we are on ourselves. It's a lot of criticism, but no real direction.

SPEAKER_04: 13:04

I think that's another thing though. You can connect that with being seen and valued for black people. You know, that's the reason they post these things because they're taught growing up that they need to prove a point, they need to be something, they need to be this. So then they obviously want to be seen, they promote themselves in a certain way, which is what they were taught, which is wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:22

I think that's that's another thing in the mindset where they just want to be valued in a certain way, which isn't the right way. They end up losing sight of what's important because they're taught from such a young age that they need to subconsciously.

SPEAKER_06: 13:34

They're just trying to fit in. Words of affirmation for every single achievement, but from strangers that are talking about you. That's where the mind game goes on because you're no you know you're you're wanting to be seen by people that have no love for you, don't actually want to see you do well. They're social media people. They're not real family. You're not sitting around the table and like discussing your goals and stuff with your actual family, but you're connecting online and thinking that you somewhat have a fan base.

SPEAKER_05: 14:00

A community.

SPEAKER_06: 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 14:02

I guess I'll push back a little bit. The level of being put down, the level of racism that someone my age has faced, you haven't seen. So the battles that I've had to, and it's just by sheer just exposure, right? Because experience. I'm older and that's just just normal, right? Not because I was in any particular area or whatever, it's just it's just what it is. The longer you live, the more you'll deal with it, the more you'll see it. So it's a little different from 20-year-olds like yourselves. Yes, you're seeing more and more of it. And if there was no social media, you might be like, I don't even think racism exists. I think it's over. No, I mean what I'm what I'm saying is keep in mind that your brother right here didn't know he was black until he was about nine years old.

SPEAKER_03: 14:42

You said that on the podcast.

SPEAKER_05: 14:44

You are not that. He was nine.

SPEAKER_03: 14:47

I was nine.

SPEAKER_05: 14:48

Eight. I say that proudly, not the way you're taking it. Here's what I mean by that. We raised you and we sheltered you, right? And we didn't make everything about the fact that you're a black kid versus a white kid. But I knew as a father, as a black man, that I need to start telling you things. It's unfortunate and it's very heartbreaking, and it's sad that I had to start telling you that at eight. So the fact that you didn't know means we did a good job up to that point because you didn't see yourself as a black kid. You just saw yourself as I'm just a kid, I'm a boy. And so if I showed you a white girl and I said, What's the difference between you and her? You'd be like, I'm a boy. She's a girl. That's it. Right? But you're not thinking that this kid is white and I'm black. And the poorer the community is, the more restrictions there are on the particular group of people based on resources, etc. Like you can go into any hood, anywhere in any city and find food deserts where they don't even have a supermarket. I mean, try it. Go down to like College Park, final publics, final Kroger. Now go find a bunch of churches, fried chicken. Go find a liquor store, go find a check cashing place.

SPEAKER_02: 15:53

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_05: 15:53

Right? So it happens based on neighborhoods, and that's done on purpose. With them, they have to tell that kid that even earlier. That kid's gonna learn that he's black at three as soon as he can talk. But my point is, you were sheltered from it for a while, and if there was no social media, all of you guys sitting here would have been exposed to it to some degree, but not a lot. Because keep in mind social media is like wildfire. It makes it worse because it forces people, like I talked about earlier in tribalism, it forces people to say, I have to pick a side. Because I have to defend those who look like me or those who share my ideals.

SPEAKER_01: 16:27

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 16:27

Right? So then it's making people more extreme than they would have been otherwise. So my original point, I've dealt with it, I've been exposed to it, and I deal with it more and more, even now. Whereas with you guys, it's less. So my question to you then is when you say there's a victim mentality, when you say there's a victim mindset, there's truth to it, but there's for a reason.

unknown: 16:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 16:50

I don't think that black folks in general are sitting around going, everything that happens is because I'm black. And again, I'm talking in generalizations, I'm not speaking about the one, yeah, there's one idiot in every race everywhere, right? Yeah. But in general, when something happens, the last thing that I think about, even though they've slapped me in my face a million times with racism, but the last thing I think about is it's because I'm black. But then it becomes evident that it's be it is because I'm black.

SPEAKER_02: 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 17:17

So how could you blame an entire group of people or certain demographics? Let me push right back.

SPEAKER_06: 17:23

Let's say push right back.

SPEAKER_05: 17:25

And I'd like to hear from you too about please.

SPEAKER_06: 17:27

Oh my God, we were having such a chat. Yes, that's what I was.

SPEAKER_05: 17:30

Please.

SPEAKER_06: 17:30

So I think what comes from it too is just I'm not saying that the victim mentality is something that I don't understand. I think that it's very much fear-based. And I get that. All of it, I get it. It's all trauma-based. But my thing is when you're teaching that young man, whether it be three or nine, it can't just be fear them. It's you against them. You know, your life is in jeopardy at all times. Also build up that young man's confidence. Also explain to him how powerful his history is. How, like, don't just push why he is the way he is and what he's going to face, and that be it. Build up that confidence because that young man now, yes, is going to be respectful and put both his hands on the wheel and keep a mild temper and put his window all the way down and keep it cool because he understands and he was taught that he's a young black man since he was three. That's fine. But at the same time, he's not gonna go online when he's living in a home with nine people, it's a two-bedroom house, and he's not really living that lifestyle. And he's going out there and parking next to somebody's well posting a picture next to somebody else's car, flexing. So that's what I'm saying. Like they want to be seen, but seen in the wrong way. It's there, that confidence is not there. So now they're pulling at strings, now they're making random music and they're posting with people they don't know and taking pictures, dressing in clothes that took their entire check to buy. It's a facade. And it's because that confidence isn't there, that foundation is there. The only thing that they were taught is fear. The only thing that they were taught is trauma. And it has to grow because now you have this grown insecure man that the only thing he has is fear and rage. And the only thing he could tie to is the fact that he's black.

SPEAKER_05: 19:05

You said there's a victim mindset in our community. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 19:09

I mean, I won't deny that obviously the racism's there and we suffered as as a race. Suffering. Yes, we are still suffering. Right. But it is not as bad as it was. We still have. Like the thing is, especially young black people now.

SPEAKER_05: 19:24

When? When you say it's not as bad as it was when. I'm sorry? You say when you say it's not as bad as it was in what slavery.

SPEAKER_04: 19:33

We're going to extremes, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 19:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 19:35

We have the same amount of rights in this world. Right now, in this world, even now, people That's not true. Huh?

SPEAKER_05: 19:41

That's not true. About the same amount of rights. So there's something called redlining that prevents people from living where they need to live, and it's systematic. There's also the fact that black people in this country in 2025, the right to vote is not a God-given right. It's not something we have as the Constitution. It was an amendment, and it has to be voted on every 50 years. Which means, like by next year, you might not be able to vote if they vote against it. What's up, listeners? I just wanted to jump in here real quick for a quick correction. It's not every 50 years. So the 15th Amendment, which gives every person in the United States the right to vote regardless of race, is in fact a permanent part of the Constitution. But we were not considered an entire person, but rather three-fifths of a person. So in 1965, Congress passed the Voting Rights Act, but only for a few years at a time. So 1965, it had to be reenacted or reauthorized in 1970, then 75, and so on and so forth. Finally, in 2006, you heard me correctly, in 2006, they did not make it permanent, they extended it for 25 years. Which means in 2031, so just six years from now, my son, my nephew, and my daughter, in 2031, in their late 20s, will not have the right to vote unless those protections are again given. And it will have everything to do with the Supreme Court, which government is in place, and which way the political winds blow. So yeah, we don't have the same rights. That'd be interesting. So we don't have the same rights, but go on.

SPEAKER_04: 21:39

Well, specifically what I was referring to is we are not gonna walk in the store and be denied to buy something. It's not as extreme as it was. Somebody might look at it as crazy. You're right.

SPEAKER_03: 21:51

Somebody might do that.

SPEAKER_04: 21:52

Somebody not they might look at it as crazy and be like, I don't want to sell this to you. I don't even want you breathing the same air I'm breathing, but I guess. But the point is what I was saying is children are being raised taught that they're less than something or someone else. The problem is, like we all uh discussed in uh in the earlier podcast, was there's um a problem with fathers, black fathers not being in the household. Did you know actually there's a thing where mothers like single mothers will get paid for fathers not being in the households? That is a thing. Yeah. Do you know basin?

SPEAKER_06: 22:27

Yes. You don't think so?

SPEAKER_05: 22:30

So that is systematic, and that is by design. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04: 22:34

So like I agree, we have unfortunate um circumstances for sure. For sure. But the thing is, we're making it harder on ourselves, which is where that victim mentality comes in. We're not fighting it how we should be, we're influencing it even further and making ourselves even more of a victim. By doing what? Just the way that we're raising the kids. Um I'm saying we like I have kids. No, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 22:59

I know what you mean. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04: 23:00

Like the mothers, they'll they'll teach the they'll teach young black folks that men ain't shit. The fathers ain't shit because the dads ain't around. They'll teach them that white people are superior in a certain way. They're like, it just starts from there. We make it seem like they're the enemy, or we have to be afraid of them, or we're less than them, and then they have this mindset that just keeps spiral and growing in their minds as they get older and older, and then they have this fear of white folks or this hatred of white folks. Not even just white people, it could be anybody else. But it's usually mostly white people.

SPEAKER_06: 23:29

Teach character-based things like be slow to anger, still always be a young man, be a gentleman. Your education is important. Your family will be important. Be careful with your body, be careful who you start a family with because you're going to lead a family. Help them develop in different ways. Still give them the knowledge, still give them the information. Don't keep it away from them. Don't seclude them because you made it out of a certain area or whatever. But at the same time, you don't want your kid to be ignorant, but you also want them to have other things that they're proud of, other things that they can build from. You want them to start not ready to fight, but just at least ready to go.

SPEAKER_04: 24:06

It almost seems like they're raising them for survival in a world. Like they're gonna have to hunt. And obviously, this is a world we have to survive. For sure. And that it seems like we're starting this off with nothing while everybody else has the advantage.

SPEAKER_06: 24:19

Head down, chest up.

SPEAKER_05: 24:21

So earlier you mentioned like if we worked into a store, it's funny you should mention it because the first thing that came to mind was how Oprah was profiled in a store in Europe. I forgot which store she was in, some bag store, either I think um L Mess or uh Louis Vuitton. I'm gonna pronounce those things correctly, by the way, so I'm not gonna if it sounds weird, right? It's because I'm saying it right. But it happens, it happens to the best of us. It happens to, even though there's she was a billionaire. When it comes to these women, for example, when you talk about these mothers and what they teach, I think subconsciously there is an element to what you're saying that's true, teaching that the white people are superior. But I don't think I've ever heard a woman utter those words. It's a byproduct, and directly they're teaching that because of how they're teaching them how to behave. But is this something you've witnessed, or how do you know this?

SPEAKER_04: 25:11

Yes, I have well personally I haven't experienced it, but I've witnessed it and I've met people that have experienced it. I have um I have a very close friend, and his mother recently, I guess she kind of exposed this side of her, but he came across with a white girlfriend, and you know, you could see how his mother reacted instantly. Like she had no interest in meeting the girl, no interest in talking to her. She was she had this mindset where she was like, I can't be racist because I'm black. Like she would be saying like the most borderline racist things, but there's this mindset where you're black, you're a minority, you can't be racist because you're already suffering from it, so you can't be racist.

SPEAKER_05: 25:53

So there's some truth to that. Uh, when people say I can't be a racist because I'm black, the reason they say that maybe she didn't explain it the right way, but the reason they say that is because when you're a racist and you're a racist white person, you have influence. You're a college professor, you could decide whether or not I get admitted to the school. You look at my name, and my name is an obvious black name, for example. You could look at it and be like, Well, no, the LaShawn is not coming here, and you know, and you're an employer, and that name goes at the bottom of the pile or straight in the trash, right? That resume doesn't get seen for a fact. My generation, Zola's generation, we named our kids, and that's something we have to be conscious of in a way that when that name appears on the resume, they can't tell right away that that kid is black. There's a reason we do that, because we understand that other people have an influence on us, not in a way that we are seeing ourselves, but in a way that we're whether we are able to live there, work there, be in a certain place. When we bought this house, for instance, it's one of those things where they basically said, Well, you don't have to disclose the fact that you know what your ethnicity is, and we decided not to. And then they said, We need to picture your license. How you get around that shit? Right? Because we understand the neighborhood, we understand what it's like, and we had to pay the black tax, and we paid heavy. We bought it three years ago. This is 2022. This is recent. This is not 1987. This is recent. This is something we deal with. We know for a fact that when there are documents that go to a bank, the way we are treated. So when someone says I can't be racist, it means that I can't, as a people, influence you in a negative way. So I may not like you, says sure there's prejudice there, but racism in itself, and and maybe just more my my opinion than fact, right? But racism itself has an implication of being able to stifle your growth or prevent you from doing certain things, living certain places, having certain things, and white black folks don't have that power over white people. They have it on us.

SPEAKER_04: 27:51

Yeah, but you also can't forget that there's also the fact that there's hatred in racism as well. True. If there's a sense of hatred because of your race, that's also racism.

SPEAKER_05: 28:01

But we think that hatred comes from black people in general, throughout history, have not invaded Europe, Asia, the Americas. The hatred comes from the fact that there's oppression. It's almost a reaction to an action. Of course. To this day, I don't hate a certain anyone, but there's a certain anger that will arise when someone does me wrong. You know, when I get pulled over and there's a way I'm treated, even though I'm a 50-year-old grown man, I have to feel like my dignity is taken from me because the way I get pulled out of the vehicle and the way I have to sit on the curb doesn't matter what I'm wearing. I could be in a suit, doesn't matter. There's a way I'm being treated by this 24-year-old guy in Mississippi with his gun out. When I get back in my car, because obviously I made it, because here I am, right? Because it could have been a different story if I decided I was gonna stand up to that. And I didn't. But when I get back in my car, I can't help but feel animosity towards that person. And in my head at that time, I'm thinking about they're all like that. And I gotta remember my boy Dylan, who's cool as fuck, and that's not him, right? So it's I know this more nurture than nature because racism and hate is taught. It's not something that you're born with. I get that.

SPEAKER_02: 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 29:14

But it's been taught to a lot of these motherfuckers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 29:17

Yeah, but that's that's when you just have to pick apart the programming and then just I guess direct that dislike towards that person and not the collective, because then the rage is valid.

SPEAKER_06: 29:28

I'm not the rage is totally valid. It's overly valid. But also what I'm saying is to tie it all back, because we kind of went on a tangent a little bit, but to tie it all back to the beginning of being seen and feeling valued. Where does that young man feel seen by the right people? How does that man see any value in himself if he's just part of an oppressed group? That's all that he knows. It's his character, it's his personality, it's what he's always going to be, that's what he's always going to do, that's how he's gonna walk and talk and address everything and react. And live and it makes no sense. Eventually, you have to again you give the knowledge so that that boy is not oblivious. You don't want him walking around like, oh no, I feel white today. You don't want him saying that. But at the same time, who are you outside of that? What do you want to actually show people? What do you want to represent? How do you want to lead your family? What type of son, brother, dad, worker, anything that you want to be? And it's not always going to be tied to that oppression. Sometimes it's just you being a good dude, you being a solid dude, you being a smart dude, like those type of things. So as far as what you're tying it back to social media too, what they're showing. They're seeking their value from people that I mean, I I don't even understand it. I really don't understand it. We're not taught. It's getting worse and worse.

SPEAKER_01: 30:46

We're not taught to really value ourselves. We're taught to value what we were taught to show off.

SPEAKER_06: 30:51

Trends. Everybody's wearing jorts. We're back on jorts. So if you don't have jorts, you're not cool.

SPEAKER_01: 30:57

That's not coming back, is it? It is. It is actually.

SPEAKER_06: 31:00

And it's like the worst thing. What's the jort? Exactly. Jean shorts. They like flare. It's awful.

SPEAKER_05: 31:10

Last thing I'll touch on is the Black Father absentee myth. It's not entirely a myth because it happens, but it happens in every community. I think what happens, it is weaponized when it happens in our community.

SPEAKER_04: 31:23

It's just different.

SPEAKER_05: 31:24

How do you mean?

SPEAKER_04: 31:25

When it happens in our community, I feel like it has a different um impact, I'll say. Obviously, because of how we're already portrayed, doesn't really help. What we're taught doesn't really help. What we've suffered from doesn't really help. Right. But it's just different in our community. So it's obviously gonna be blown up, like you're saying. It's gonna be shown differently. But I think when you see in Hispanic communities, even if the father isn't there, they got ten damn uncles that can play father. They're all together. You see any type of Hispanic community, they all roll in up together. You see any type of Asian community, they all stick together. It's just different with black communities. We don't have a strong base of community. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_05: 32:07

Which goes against everything that is predominantly and inherently African. It's actually the opposite because if there's one group of people on the planet that has a strong sense of community, it's people from that continent.

SPEAKER_04: 32:20

That's what that's what we need to go back to, I guess. Go back to the motherland. Here we lost it.

SPEAKER_06: 32:24

In our community, too. I can't speak for another one, but I would say in our community, I like it's not just the absent dad. I think it's all the absent dad and the mom that stays go hand in hand. There's already so much rage in our community. And then when that separation happens and the dad ducks off, or he's like, he's alive, but not technically, because he's not present at all. In that situation, it's the mom that stays also plays in part too in the children. Because now you have this person that is basically raising children by herself against her will. And so it's not always the dad, the absent dad, that does damage on the young men, too. Sometimes it is the mom that stays and raises them. So I don't want to just put all the blame on the absent dad. I mean, he's obviously a piece of shit, but like we also need to tie into the mom that's staying because the absent dad is only gonna do so much. All he's probably gonna do is cause some type of abandonment issues. But everything else that that young man is comes from the mother and everybody else that was in her surroundings.

SPEAKER_05: 33:22

There's a distinction between absent and non-resident. Right. I was a non-resident dad to you. I didn't live in the same house because your mom and I divorced.

SPEAKER_06: 33:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 33:31

I wouldn't qualify myself as an absent father.

SPEAKER_06: 33:33

I wouldn't either.

SPEAKER_05: 33:34

So that's not at all. So that's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: 33:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 33:38

I was just looking up a quick comparison here. Black fathers who are non-resident, 30% of them are still very much active in everyday activities, right? Even just down to doing homework with the child and being part of everything, right?

SPEAKER_02: 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 33:55

That's actually higher than a lot of the other communities. It's 20% in the white demographic. But that's not going to get highlighted.

SPEAKER_06: 34:01

Not at all.

SPEAKER_05: 34:02

You see my point? But yeah, we could do this all day. So we got I I I know we took a hell of a left.

SPEAKER_06: 34:07

I love you, black man. I promise you. I promise you. I want y'all to be so great. You're amazing to me, I promise.

SPEAKER_05: 34:14

To get back to where we're talking about, do you think social media, which by the way, it's unfortunate, but we can't have almost any conversation these days and not talk about it because social media is literally part. It's it's interwoven into every aspect of our lives, whether or not you want it to be. For example, Kiki's not on social media, and it doesn't matter because the second he hits a certain level of success, his team will put him on social media. He doesn't have to be, but he becomes the brand.

SPEAKER_02: 34:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_05: 34:41

So it's not like you can be on it. You know, I was listening to a podcast the other day, Todd Peterson, who created Vivant, who's a multi-billionaire. He's like, I've never used social media. I'm not on it. And that's good. But the brand is, everything he does is because he's all right.

SPEAKER_06: 34:56

All over social media. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 34:57

You know, if you Google him, he's all over the place. Yeah. But him personally, he doesn't have it. He doesn't check it, doesn't know what's going on, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02: 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 35:05

Um, so we can't escape the conversation of social media and how what part it plays in our lives. So do you think that social media rewards authenticity or performance? Performance. Performance. Damn. All right. I was unanimous.

SPEAKER_06: 35:17

Performance. Really? Yes. And it's weird because there will be someone or a group of people that will be authentic and then it gets copied, and then all of a sudden it's a new wave and it's a new trend. So you don't know who's really living like that for real and who's putting on for a 30-second reel. Within 72 hours, it's no longer authentic. So it's just performance-based.

SPEAKER_05: 35:41

And what's the emotional cost of that? I mean, I know you're not psychologists, but what's the emotional cost of having to perform all the time?

SPEAKER_06: 35:48

I have no idea. I literally have three posts on my face.

SPEAKER_05: 35:52

Good for you.

SPEAKER_06: 35:53

It's the same one. And usually it's going to be if I add anything else, it's because I went and did another photo shoot with my girls. I post and then it's gone. Like I don't, you have no idea what's going on. And then I just post stuff that's funny, or if I agree. Now it's like everything that you post is your real life. It's it's you're standing behind that one statement. It's like, remember when social media used to be funny? We all used to get on here.

SPEAKER_05: 36:16

Oh, fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 36:17

Yeah, and like post random songs that we were feeling.

SPEAKER_05: 36:20

All my algorithm is. I mean, I just be cracking.

SPEAKER_06: 36:24

Not everything is so serious. Everybody wants to fight in the comments. Like, you guys, hello. We're this is not real life. If your phone dies right now, you're no longer a part of the argument. Seriously. You hit the wrong turn, you come out here to the property, that's it. Who cares what I was fighting about past the gate? Because I home have service. So it doesn't make sense. Like, I don't know. It's all performance though. And I don't know what it does to your mental, but it's like you're always trying to play catch up. You're always trying to like either be with the wave or start a new program.

SPEAKER_05: 36:54

Julian, do you find that you perform at all, being totally honest?

SPEAKER_01: 36:56

I don't suppose either. And if he does, it's like the weirdest random thing. I can go by what I see. And again, it could be fake because it's social media at the end of the day. But you hear a lot of creators on social media when they're seeking instant gratification, they're slowly losing themselves. They're not, again, valuing. You're just you're losing yourself. You're not proud really of what you are. You're just proud of the reaction you get, how many likes you get on an Instagram post, how many people comment under your post, how many shares, reposts, how many people are gonna see what this is. But people don't care about how you got there or how you feel behind the scenes. You're the one that's taking that toll because you're trying to put on a persona on social media that's not even you. So where's your value in that?

SPEAKER_05: 37:42

Yeah. It's hard to even be present from what I see. Like I'll watch a concert and I'll watch people be at a concert, for example, and everyone from like the first 10, 20 rows, have their phone app.

SPEAKER_01: 37:52

Crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 37:53

You were just you can't even be present.

SPEAKER_06: 37:54

I just went to a concert, you guys. Right. And I got I tried so hard. I think I got like two or three good videos, but the rest of my videos, I swear it was like someone put you in the dryer. You you the video's awful. I was full on dancing, right? Swaying the phone everywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 38:11

Because you're in the mood.

SPEAKER_06: 38:11

Because I was having such a good time. Finally, I was like, this is ridiculous. I don't know what I'm recording this for because I'm not gonna be able to watch it back. And the only person I can hear singing is me because I'm losing it. Right. So this doesn't make sense. I know no, I can watch it on the internet tomorrow. Yeah, I don't have to record any of this because I can get these same videos back tomorrow.

SPEAKER_05: 38:27

But how many people did you see on their phones?

SPEAKER_06: 38:29

Everybody, everybody.

SPEAKER_05: 38:29

Yeah, it used to be like even with the Haitian music scene, you know, you go watch this band perform and people would dance. That's done with.

SPEAKER_06: 38:38

Dancing is crazy now.

SPEAKER_05: 38:39

Dancing is over. It's like the band is performing. Yeah, I haven't been in one of those things in forever. And the other day, because I have friends in the industry, someone invited me to go out. So my friends were also musicians. We showed up, we were just chilling in the little because I didn't want to be with the crowd. Because I thought they were gonna dance and just bounce around. So I was like, put me in the section where no one's dancing bump into me, right? So I'm back up there. I'm just like checking out the band. Um, and I swear to God, it was like the first 30 deep in front of this band. It was just nothing but women with their phones up and a bunch of guys who were just also with their phones, just holding it. And not a single person was like, Hey, do you want to dance to this young lady? Because it's dancing music. This this is not yeah, this is compound music. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not feeling nothing. You're just gonna stand it, but it's it's true. No one is present, right? And it's all about the performance.

SPEAKER_06: 39:30

You weren't there if you can't show that you were there.

SPEAKER_05: 39:31

Correct.

SPEAKER_06: 39:32

Everybody asked me, they were like, Where are your pictures for the like for your outfit for the concert? And it was like, um, my outfit was cute, but like I didn't remember. And they're just like, What? You went and you bought a cute outfit and you didn't take any pictures and you didn't record much, and it's like Yeah, are you okay? I've literally waited, I don't know, 20 years to go to this one concert. I could care less what I was wearing. I only put on nice clothes because I was going with people that were wearing nice clothes. I figured I didn't want to look like I'm going to the gym.

SPEAKER_05: 39:59

You don't want to be in your usual.

SPEAKER_06: 40:00

Yeah. So I put on like a nice shirt. Sure. But like I'm not gonna go and pose and stand on the side of the concert not be paying attention so that you can see my outfit so I can prove to you that I was there. I know I was there, I bought the tickets. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_05: 40:14

Yeah. Did your family teach you the value of humility or presentation?

SPEAKER_06: 40:20

I'd say both. Yeah, I think I got 50-50.

SPEAKER_01: 40:23

Repeat the question one more time for me.

SPEAKER_05: 40:25

Did your family, your parents, did this teach you to value humility or presentation more? Honestly, one from each parent.

SPEAKER_06: 40:32

Literally, I think it's pretty 50-50 on that one. I was trying to keep it cute. Present yourself a certain way, but also make sure everything's matching, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 40:42

All right. Is there something you wish older generations understood about the way you present yourselves both online and in real life?

SPEAKER_06: 40:52

Me personally or as the generation?

SPEAKER_05: 40:54

Three of you specifically.

SPEAKER_06: 40:55

Oh, um, no. I don't think I I have enough riff-raff going on on my if I mean if my page is bothering you, something's very wrong. The only thing I need you to understand is mind your business. Because there's literally there's literally nothing going on, there's no tea. So I don't know. Um, I guess just give more grace, but also don't entertain it. I don't know how we all became like one group. We're not one group. The elders need to be the elders. You're not a kid. You are to lead, be an example. So you can't be on there commenting under the shade room, being an idiot, arguing with a bunch of kids, and then when some little well, some 20-year-old girl is on there with a string on, and then you want to condemn her. You're you're no better because you can't fit the string. You still have a childlike mentality. So the only thing that I would say is don't be a hypocrite and give grace. Act like what you want to see. That's all. All right. But if you want a boring page, follow me. If you want a boring page, you want to see people with clothes, night at Carsell.

SPEAKER_05: 41:55

There you go. What about you too? Is that something you wish the older generation, maybe your parents, but maybe anyone in your environment in general, understood about the way you present yourself?

SPEAKER_04: 42:03

Really? No. I don't really have any problems or quarrels with the older generation. I feel like I understand them for the most part. They understand me. The only thing is, it seems like my silence bothers them for some reason.

unknown: 42:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 42:18

I guess I don't know what it is. They mistake it for something. I don't really know what it is, but there have been a few of the older generation that I haven't gone along with just because they misread my silence.

SPEAKER_05: 42:29

Felt. I don't even understand the issue.

SPEAKER_06: 42:32

People are mad when you don't speak when they want you to speak.

SPEAKER_05: 42:36

I mean, he walks in the room, he says hello. Of course. I'm not rude. Right, so that's what I'm saying. Like, if you didn't you ain't the same way with you too growing up, though.

SPEAKER_06: 42:44

Like he never wants to be a part of the party. He never wants to come sit over here and hang out with the adults. He's always somewhere with the kids. Like it's like, who are you guys? It's fine.

SPEAKER_03: 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 42:51

We're all here hanging out at the same place. And I'm just an observer. And I really am not interested in your conversation, if I'm being honest. I don't really see a place for me there. So let me just sit and vibe.

SPEAKER_04: 43:01

But there are even people like who have wanted a reaction out of me. They wanted to get a reaction out of me. And I'm just not that type of person. So it's just like I wish they would understand that because then they go and make an assumption and they take it out of context and then they make their own belief. And then that's where it's just like, come on, man. You can't have less control than a 20-year-old.

SPEAKER_06: 43:22

Get him, Kiki. Leave my boy alone, he said.

SPEAKER_01: 43:28

For me, it's just I'm never doing something for instant gratification. I'm not doing anything for you. So if that's what you're assuming based off what I if I do show off, which I have no reason to, but if I'm showing something like it's not for you per se, I value what I have, and if I feel like presenting myself in a way for you to judge in a way. So don't think I'm like seeking a reaction, I guess. And I'm just doing it for me, what you think has no benefit towards me. It's not gonna affect me in a negative way. I'm just doing it to do it. You're not seeking validation. I'm not seeking validation, no. If anything, I validate myself. Was there showing off in your generation while you were growing up? Even without the internet. How how was that? Like what was the difference between then and now, you know, without social media? Yeah, it was just harder.

SPEAKER_05: 44:21

Stone really had to ride their dinosaurs to the next block. Yeah, so write poetry and legends to each other.

SPEAKER_06: 44:30

The Georgia Tim's combo.

SPEAKER_05: 44:32

Send the pigeons. Yeah. So we used the chisel to write on stone. Um, that's how it all started. That's tragic. We got them. And fire was yet to be discovered.

SPEAKER_06: 44:44

They were just using their breath.

unknown: 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 44:48

So we yeah, just hunting and eight. That's it. Um, but yeah, to answer your question, the way we did it was just it was just the same thing. And people are people, yeah. What social media did, and it wasn't as bad. I'll say that. It wasn't nearly as bad. You see less lost people in my generation.

SPEAKER_06: 45:04

There was still shame.

SPEAKER_05: 45:05

Yeah, and they were less lost because they weren't, and I I believe Kiki said this again on the last podcast. He said, you know, comparison is a thief of joy. Well, that's what it was. So if I saw a few people, you know, you're kind of comparing yourself to these people, and some of us were better at not doing that, so we weren't too influenced by it.

unknown: 45:24

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 45:25

But my my view was limited to where I was in my area.

SPEAKER_01: 45:30

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 45:30

I didn't get to see, I'm 25, for example. I don't get to see a 20-year-old with a money spread. Because where are you gonna you're where are you gonna see that? You know, you would have to email it to me at some point.

SPEAKER_06: 45:41

At that point, it's like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_05: 45:43

It's like, what do you who are you? Like, what's going on? Um, so there wasn't a whole lot to see that didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02: 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 45:50

When something happened, yes, maybe someone was going out of their way to show off, but very little was faked. You still had to pay this bill, you still had to do things, and if you were going somewhere, you're doing your best. There are people that went out of their way to buy a nice car because when they were gonna be somewhere, they needed the nice car to represent how well they were doing. Right. That might be the extent of it. Maybe you wear certain clothes, name brands, and things like that. And we all at some point fell victim to it. At some point, there was a time where it mattered to me that I had this particular brand of clothes on. It was totally innocent and benign compared to what you guys have to deal with and the way you're exposed to the world and the nonsense that you have to see.

SPEAKER_06: 46:29

Okay, we're gonna touch on it real quick. Celebrities and politicians were celebrities and politicians back then. Now, everybody's an influencer. Every single person is an influencer. It'll be somebody with 10K, they get on there, you went to high school with them, you know them in real life, and now here they are influencing a bunch of younger people, and people are taking like everything they say face value. Like that, that is not someone they have no idea. They're living life for the first time, they're just as young as you, they're trying, but again, it's the same person that's watching you're watching them wake up and you're watching them drive out of their garage. Like, you know that there's a clip where they had to take off running back up the driveway and get that whole setup and like wait for their neighbors to go. Because God forbid there's somebody walking their dog. Now they're involved, so you have to do it again. So now they're running up and down the driveway. You're not thinking about like the realness of this.

SPEAKER_05: 47:25

What it took for that to happen. Yeah, you don't have a team following you around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 47:29

Right. So I think it's just the worlds are blending. Everybody feels like, oh, if I just post the right amount of stuff, if I just fake it enough, I'll make it because everybody can reach celebrity status overnight. It could be one insane viral video, one anything, and now you're popping. And for whatever reason, people are paying to come watch you do whatever you do.

SPEAKER_05: 47:49

Yeah, everyone's looking for life hack, I think, and they're looking for a shortcut.

SPEAKER_04: 47:53

It's weird. One of the craziest things for me is Kobe Lame. You you know Kobe Lame?

SPEAKER_01: 47:57

He didn't say a word. He would just put he would watch a video that was so stupid. He would reenact the video, do it the right way, and just put his hands out in front of him. He was the most followed TikToker. Yeah, I think he still is. He's trying to put his hands out.

SPEAKER_04: 48:11

The amount of brand deals, the opportunities he got just for just saying how is that even influenced?

SPEAKER_05: 48:17

And you know, I was like, It's not.

SPEAKER_06: 48:18

That's the thing. Everybody's influenced by everything.

SPEAKER_05: 48:20

All he was saying was, I'm pointing out the obvious about how absurd this thing is. There was some brilliance to it. What he was doing, he was taking the internet, he was taking all these reels, he was saying, This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There it is. Right. And then he was pointing it out. So he actually, you know, his claim to fame was, I'm going to show you how stupid the internet is in social media, and there it was.

SPEAKER_06: 48:44

But there's the other side to it. So people would be even more stupid so that they can end up on his page.

SPEAKER_05: 48:48

No way.

SPEAKER_06: 48:49

So now we have more stupid, him influencing more people, and it's just the circle of stupid. It makes no sense. But all of these people are influencing.

SPEAKER_05: 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 48:58

The stupid video makers and him with his hands. That's insane.

SPEAKER_05: 49:02

Yeah. No, this was a good discussion, man. So uh we're going to read the outro notes. So this, so you have to read the outro doing uh a celebrity impression. I need, I need the keep in mind, keep in mind that it's it's supposed to be a bad impression. You're not supposed to be good at this, so don't stress it.

SPEAKER_06: 49:19

You're supposed to- Wow, where was that? Where was that?

SPEAKER_05: 49:21

That's just well, you know, you're like you follow the show, and you know that's exactly what I've been saying since day one. I didn't think I needed to give you instructions, you needed to hear it.

SPEAKER_06: 49:28

I was stressed.

SPEAKER_05: 49:30

I will be Sean Paul today.

SPEAKER_04: 49:31

Let's do it, man. Please support us by following the Bumbo Clare show. Leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you on the next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day. Manhood Matters, we're out.