Speaker 1: 0:00

And I didn't have a problem with it because that's what attracted me to her how she looked. I'm confident in my situation. We had conversations, I expressed the opinions of other people. I wasn't trying to tell her she should change, but just be knowledgeable, you know. And her retort was okay. That's their problem, because I know who I am as a person. I'm not loose, I'm not this. I'm about my business. I look good in what I wear and I like to wear what I want to wear. Cool, if you like it, I love it. Yeah, when I would get this?

Speaker 3: 0:36

Welcome back family. Do you guys remember this guy? I believe his name is Derek Jackson. He was on the internet as the self-appointed savior of all women either in or wanting a relationship. He'd spend a lot of his time being judgmental and cracking down on men. In general, a lot of his advice was actually quite good, except the person who needed Derek Jackson's advice the most was, in fact, derek Jackson. While this man was telling the world what to do, he had a whole wife at home who was battered, abused, humiliated, cheated on. But he was writing books and telling the world how to navigate their relationships. Well, where there's a cat, there's a copy. So now this other dude has taken up the mental, except that he's a tad more, shall I say, flamboyant. Now.

Speaker 3: 1:24

Normally I'd scroll right past this type of content. It has nothing to do with me, but the reason it came to my attention is because it's being shared by sisters. I don't see any other ethnicities taking this dude seriously. Maybe they figured out that if they want actual relationship advice, they'll go to a professional and not some guy on Facebook. So what we'll do in this episode is play clips so you can form your own opinion. Is the advice good? Is he right? Is it dangerous? Is he enticing a gender war? What's his agenda Now? After each quote, we will respond.

Speaker 3: 2:01

I am your host, stefan, and I am joined at the Men's Refinery in Conyers, georgia, by one of the owners, vino Sanders, who's been married for 23 years, merlin Knight, a corporate giant, and Quentin Opong, a happily married young therapist who works with our youth and young couples. This one's going to be special and I'm dying to hear your feedback, so don't forget to email us. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's going to be special and I'm dying to hear your feedback, so don't forget to email us. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it. Then I'm going to ask you guys to just give me your thoughts on it. Okay, all right, you ready? Yeah, all right, cool, so no man with real money cares if she's a gold digger.

Speaker 1: 2:54

They just don't.

Speaker 4: 2:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:57

So my question is what is considered real money?

Speaker 3: 3:00

If you can afford to pay for whatever she needs, wants. I guess that could be relative right, Because some people with real money could be like if I'm making $10,000 a month, I'm great, and some people will not great until they're making $100,000 a month. So we don't know. So we're going to say someone who is at least at a $200,000 mark a year.

Speaker 4: 3:20

I've heard women say if you're not making $250,000, at least you can't take me, you can't be with me. So I'm going to open up with a hot take, right, and it's because of what I see in therapy. It might not be a hot take, but a lot of times women I'm noticing, particularly in our context, black women they're oftentimes looking for another father figure than a partner or husband, and that's why I have a problem with that statement, because ultimately, what it's doing is putting men in this position of as long as you're a man and you can just spend money on this woman, then she's good and you're good as a man. All she needs for you to just keep providing, providing right, and I'm not saying that as men we're not providers, but it almost pits men in. Just as long as you can do that, you're good, right. And it puts this woman in a situation where a woman is not seen as a partner. But ask for everything you want, and it's a man, can take care of it. It's cool.

Speaker 3: 4:12

Only thing I want to push back on here is this that's not a woman saying this. I don't want to blame the women. That's not their thought that's fair, because they didn't say it. This dude is saying it, that's fair, and he's almost speaking to the women and preaching almost on their behalf, when in reality it's just him saying that stuff. I think it's a dangerous, that's a statement. But how do we respond to possibly a woman hearing this thinking? Here's a man saying that. No man with real money care if I'm a gold digger does he really know what a real man?

Speaker 5: 4:38

obviously he doesn't. For him to spew out his mouth to say that real man with money doesn't care if she's a gold digger, whereas we have sisters. We don't want them being gold diggers, right? So they're putting themselves in a situation where they're able to now be abused or manipulated because of the fact that I'm going to buy you whatever it is, but you do exactly what I say.

Speaker 3: 5:02

Now they're controlling you.

Speaker 5: 5:03

Yes, yes, so that is not a true statement at all and he should be ashamed for saying this is a white dude talking to our sisters, right?

Speaker 3: 5:11

yeah for some reason they decided they want to share that shit. But to your point, if a woman is being purchased, you're being owned it's transactional. Yeah, it's transactional, I know you're not really really for me because of anything other than the money. So in that case, I'm going to act that way. If I buy a machine, I want it to work a certain way. I expect it to work a certain way, or I'm sending it back.

Speaker 3: 5:33

I'm going to complain. I want it to do what it's supposed to do. And if I buy a gold digger, what do I need it to do for me? Exactly, exactly. You don't have a choice.

Speaker 1: 5:42

And the thing is we have a real life scenario of that right now Playing out, Dealing with, you know, Sean Collins. He actually, during the time that he was with this young lady that he's in court with now, he had a relationship with another woman.

Speaker 1: 5:57

Evidently he did not treat her the same way that he treated this other woman, because her standards were a little bit different and he couldn't get away with some of the things that he got away with this other woman, not to speak on her being a victim. She caused her own demise. But when you put yourself in certain positions you're going to get certain results. You know, I have a daughter and one of the things I tell her is be reliant on yourself If you find a man that is willing to provide for you that's fine, but don't let that be the deciding factor as to whether or not, you want to be with him.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Because men typically if they're in that position, as you mentioned, I now own you, so I can do and say and treat you any way that I choose to, because you are here for a purpose. Long as I'm providing that purpose, then you have no say so. Yeah, you have no rights, yeah, you have no complaints. I think that's the message that gentleman is saying when he says that he's putting these women in these positions?

Speaker 3: 6:57

by allowing them to believe that. His business is working because it's all about clicks and likes and shares because, you have these women who have been maybe victimized because maybe they had a horrible relationship. All of a sudden they want to put all men in one bucket and they love sharing stuff like that. But the reason again that I think is dangerous is because it perpetuates this stigma about black women that is not even real. They're taking a subset of the population and they're saying this is everything, this is everyone. This is everyone.

Speaker 4: 7:26

This is how it should be, and I think to your point, his agenda unfortunately, I talk to people about in different spaces is it stifles our identity. Because, as a man, if you get caught up and bought into the idea that all you should be able to do is just throw money at your wife or at your woman when it's time to provide emotional yeah, support, when it's time to provide mental support, when it's time to be a father, when it's time to do other things than just that thing, it's like, well, what am I supposed to do? You?

Speaker 5: 7:55

know and I've already paid for this exactly it also then turns the table back to the woman. So, because social media is giving them this, this platform, but believing that all he has to do is toss a dollar at you or three dollars at you.

Speaker 1: 8:08

All of a sudden.

Speaker 5: 8:09

Now you are the criminal of the crim. So what does it say about you as a person? So, because you're now allowing this guy to say that I'm going to be that provider, but more so, I'm really just going to be the purchaser.

Speaker 4: 8:22

And I have a receipt. So when I'm done with it, it's not a provider, it's a purchaser.

Speaker 5: 8:26

Yeah, and when I'm, when I'm done with that one yeah, yeah, when I'm done with it, I can cash in and or return it.

Speaker 1: 8:34

Yeah, and for the newest model, and that's exactly what will happen, you know, and not only does it poison the mind of our women, but you think about these young guys that are hearing this, you know. It takes me back to this song all of us are familiar with. You're not tricking if you got it. Yeah, you still are tricking you just right you just spending more. But it leaves the idea with these young men that all I have to do is acquire this money and and I can treat women any kind of way yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:06

And that's the wrong message that's being put out there.

Speaker 5: 9:09

Well, like you said, you have daughters, I have sisters, nine to be exact, so I would never want them to be in a situation where someone is saying I'm going to be that provider, then all I do is provide the financial aspect to it when that shoe turns. Yeah, I need more than just your dollar. So, who becomes the gold digger at that point?

Speaker 3: 9:34

So next thing that he says Women should be gold diggers. Women should look for a provider.

Speaker 2: 9:40

What's wrong with that?

Speaker 1: 9:42

Man, somebody needs to take this.

Speaker 3: 9:47

Oh hey, listen. Hundreds and thousands of views he sounds like a woman he does. It's that gender war baiting. Yes, it's so much of that nonsense, but it sells right, and all I'm trying to do is expose it for what it actually is. That guy doesn't give a shit about you. He doesn't.

Speaker 4: 10:02

He doesn't care about how women know anything like that, right, but it gets clicks that second quote, I think, is dialing me in on his agenda, because he's really and I think you said that, stefan he's pandering to the pain of women and I get this aspect, like I've heard. Women share this desire to get to a place where they're in their soft girl era, right sure they're in this place where they can let down.

Speaker 4: 10:24

They don't have to feel the pressure of having to provide for a family or having to be the person that takes care of everybody, and so that's what he's really pandering to, but it's a twisted form of it Exactly Because actually I agree that there is nothing wrong with women wanting to have a provider in their lives, and I do agree that women should be in their soft area.

Speaker 3: 10:41

That's where you belong. I need to be in my masculine area. That's how lies.

Speaker 4: 10:45

That's how we are right.

Speaker 5: 10:46

That's my philosophy.

Speaker 3: 10:48

And I should do everything I can to work a million hours a day to provide and do all I can for my family and I don't want, you know, my wife with a pickaxe in the field you know doing that stuff. That being said, a gold digger she's not. So when you mix the two of them, you say hey women should be gold diggers.

Speaker 3: 11:05

They should look for providers. And those two different subjects, that's good. Women should look for providers. That's true if that's your thing. And again, it depends on how much of that independence you want to give up, because the second you look for a provider and you can't do for yourself, there's certain independence that is lost not that we shouldn't provide as men.

Speaker 3: 11:23

My wife's friend was visiting us a couple of days ago and she was telling us about this ordeal at the airport and this guy was, you know, livid because it was customer service, things were bad and his wife was in line. So he started making a scene and then the wife was like honey, you're embarrassing us, you're making a scene. And he yelled at her and he said get your ass out the line. My wife's friend was telling us this and my wife was like wait, what what'd she do? She goes, she got her ass out the line, yeah, yeah, basically she's kept exactly, she's kept, that's actually the word they use.

Speaker 3: 11:53

She's kept yeah, and so when you're in that situation and someone in public yells at you and say get your ass over here, what do you do but get your ass over here because they remove themselves from understanding who they are.

Speaker 5: 12:04

Correct To allow some man or woman, because it goes both ways for them, to just move over to the side and be silent, because they've now released themselves so they can be provided for. It's not always financial.

Speaker 2: 12:18

There you go.

Speaker 5: 12:19

It's not always financial. So if you're looking for a provider, it doesn't have to be a financial provider. But if that provider is giving you the insight that you need, that doesn't mean you're kept, that doesn't mean that you're submissive, that means that you're in a relationship. But for him to say that they need to be kept women again, it just says a lot about him.

Speaker 3: 12:42

And out of all the things that we provide as men, money is the only thing that we provide that diminishes in a way the woman, if I provide safety in my home. Something goes bang in the middle of the night. I'm up. Wife doesn't have to be up. She knows Steph's here, we're protected. If we're out, she knows we're protected. I provide that, but she doesn't feel less than because of it protected.

Speaker 3: 13:04

I provide that, but she doesn't feel less than because of it If I provide prayer you know, and I cover her prayer again, she doesn't feel less than because she will tell you, my man prays over me every day. But if she's got no financial means whatsoever and I'm that guy who's just paying all the money, there's something about it. I think as human beings where we just feel like we're a little less than because we don't like that feeling of having to rely on.

Speaker 4: 13:29

And power. Those two things have gone hand in hand to where the more money you have, the more power you have, and so if you don't have money, the less power you have. And that's unfortunate, like even when you talk about marriage and partnership. Like my wife, for instance, there is so much value that she adds to my life that I couldn't buy, correct.

Speaker 2: 13:47

It's price.

Speaker 4: 13:47

It's like who I'm becoming as a man, as a therapist. Even sometimes making sure I don't run around with my head cut off is because sometimes there's just there's an intangible things that she provides that I could have all the money in the world and if she was gone I would crash in a heartbeat.

Speaker 3: 14:01

You know I'm saying and you just led to my very next statement, because what she brings, the intangible things that she brings- because the next statement he makes is this listen if a man asks you what you bring to the table. That man has a low credit score.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Wow, oh, my God.

Speaker 3: 14:21

So we're not even allowed, as men, to ask a woman what she brings to the table, because in his mind, I think it's smarter than this. It's no different than Trump. I think he does have two pendants to his base. I think this dude is doing the exact same thing. In that way, you know damn well what we mean when we say what do you bring to the table.

Speaker 3: 14:36

I'm not asking you to pay the light bill yeah I'm asking you for something else and the intention was, like you said. She keeps you together, she makes you better, she makes you grow. If you're dating just to sleep around, that's a different story. But you're dating to be in relationships, that question is going to come up. What he's training them to believe is, if someone asks you, that he got a 500 credit score.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Run. He's making the whole thing about money and a true partnership, a true relationship. It goes beyond that. You have a mental, you have spiritual, you have so many other factors that are involved in relationship. The money aspect of it can be worked out. I've been married 23 years Awesome.

Speaker 3: 15:17

Nice.

Speaker 1: 15:17

And I play the role, the traditional role, of a husband. I try to take care of everything, you know. Of course, she has her own things that she take care of, but the majority of stuff I take care of because that's my role. But there are times where she may have to step in. That doesn't lessen me as a man and it doesn't lessen her as a woman, correct, you know? Because we're working as a partnership and what he's saying is, if you got to step in, that something is wrong.

Speaker 3: 15:44

that thinking is primitive there you go, that's the word for it. Yeah, almost like you want to look at the dude and go hey, you know what? We wish you a speedy evolution, my friend.

Speaker 4: 15:54

Right.

Speaker 3: 15:54

Yeah, next quote.

Speaker 1: 15:56

It's really hard to respect a man that you have to pay for.

Speaker 3: 16:03

Now I get that Even if you ask me out, I'm still not going to let you pay. So if I can't afford to pay, if that's my situation, it's just not going out, I might miss that entirely, because that's just a pride thing in me. Now, when you're in a relationship with someone, like you said, you run your own business and you could have a good month, a bad month. Things could happen. There could be money that could be allocated elsewhere. You can't touch it. There's a lot of different variables and wife steps in Now.

Speaker 5: 16:26

as men, as real men, this eats me up, no because if you're in that relationship, that doesn't diminish you as a man. That's a partnership. It doesn't make you less of a man. No, I don't think it does.

Speaker 3: 16:39

I don't think it diminishes you. I'm saying that it makes me feel a certain way pridefully, where. I just feel less You're right, you shouldn't.

Speaker 5: 16:46

This is my own head, because sometimes you have to get out of your own head. You just said the key word it's pride In a relationship that pride is no place for it.

Speaker 1: 16:55

You have to survive as a unit, not to mention if you have children. You have to survive whatever it takes as a unit, so I have no place for pride.

Speaker 3: 17:03

I struggle with that it's real though.

Speaker 4: 17:05

That's being transparent.

Speaker 5: 17:07

If you're having a bad month and then that month turns into three, what does that say to the family? Because of your pride pride you've not allowed your partner to expose herself or involve herself in the situation. You've created a sense, a toxic relationship.

Speaker 4: 17:23

That's really good. Y'all are challenging him, but it's even it's challenging me, because she did also say the vows yeah, you know, she also took the same. There wasn't a quota. She also said in sickness and in hell broke or rich.

Speaker 5: 17:38

She said it too, so that's yeah, that's. That's hit me as a man. You, you certainly want to make sure you're providing for the family or doing what needs to be, but if it's a first date and she asked you out, go nigga, I ain't going.

Speaker 3: 17:52

If I don't have the money, I'm not going.

Speaker 1: 17:54

The thing is, your first date Is about getting To know that person Correct, and them getting To know you. That doesn't always Constitute that you have to Spend money to do that. Like you said, you can go to the park.

Speaker 3: 18:07

Yeah, get some ice cream, get ice cream cone.

Speaker 5: 18:09

I still need money For ice cream, but sure, if it's broke broke, go to the park.

Speaker 3: 18:13

Better yet broke, broke don't date.

Speaker 4: 18:15

I was going to add to that.

Speaker 3: 18:16

I was going to say you're not in a position to be in a relationship. You need to work yourself out of that mess first, but that's a different conversation.

Speaker 4: 18:22

And to add to that, I wouldn't say I do agree in the standpoint of if you're broke. I got married I was still in my master's program and I was at an internship. I was probably bringing in maybe less than a grand a month. My wife was working full-time she held it down right my uncle.

Speaker 4: 18:40

Actually at the time he gave me some really good advice. She was like he was like man, if you guys are dating, you ready to get married and if the lord has told you to do it because if her character and how she treats you now, when you don't got money, is great, you can trust her that when you do like, it's going to be equally great. And my dad was on the opposite and my dad was like if the woman makes more money than you, she won't respect you, she won't respect you. And I remember I almost took that to heart. Yeah, man, the foundation.

Speaker 4: 19:05

I think what he was trying to say was as a man, don't be lazy. I think it's a healthy level. Take some pride in being able to provide and take care for your family. Obviously, I think he communicated it the wrong way, I think, or in a way that was unhealthy. So I do think there's a level sometimes where you do, as a man, want to take that pressure off of your spouse you know, you don't want them to feel the pressure of rent is due again or mortgage is due again.

Speaker 4: 19:29

You know what I yeah, it's our job.

Speaker 3: 19:31

I'm on my way to being a multimillionaire and I told my wife I'm going to retire you in two years. Right, that's awesome. First thing she said to me was you're not retiring me, I'm going to keep bringing in money. Because again to that first point, she's like I don't ever want to be in that situation to where I don't feel like I have control of things. It was like oh, I can't totally give up what I feel is my agency at any point in time and I'm like you wouldn't. You know me, that's not the case and she's just like it's in my own head. I would not be in that situation. So, whether I help you run the business, whatever it is, but it's some kind of way I'm earning.

Speaker 5: 20:06

And it's so funny you say that because when you were speaking about the couple that was in the airport, I start remembering one of my friends whose wife is in that situation. It's like huh, you didn't really think about it. You've seen it, but you didn't really think about it. I've heard him say I make the decision, whatever I say goes. Then I look over at her and she's just, that's it. She's quiet, quiet. Even the children's credit cards are all under him.

Speaker 1: 20:32

That is definitely controlled, and you know, to me that speaks also to the man. You know, this is my own personal opinion that speaks to a form of insecurity on his part To even want someone that doesn't have a voice.

Speaker 2: 20:45

Correct.

Speaker 1: 20:46

I don't personally understand that, because if I'm involved with someone, I don't want another child. You know what I'm saying? Correct? That's what you do with your children. You tell them look, hey, get your butt over here.

Speaker 5: 20:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:58

And they move. That's a child. I don't want to have a relationship with another child. I want my woman. You know she ain't got to be arguing with me all the time, but at least have some dignity about yourself. Yeah, you know, have some self-worth. If I'm coming off the mouth slick, at least look at me like I'm crazy, like what up, bruh.

Speaker 3: 21:16

You need to have someone who will challenge you on that. I've learned a while back you show people and you tell people how you want to be treated. Maybe you don't do this for anyone else, but this is what you do for me.

Speaker 5: 21:26

It goes back to Maya Angelou saying when they show you who they are believe them. Yes, sir.

Speaker 4: 21:37

The first are believe them. Yes, sir, the first time. Yeah, man, just to even going back to what you said, you know men can feel being a marriage for a long time and then end up feeling alone and the pressure so much eventually mentally they can't take it no more, either because of them or these social media people. They've created a family where everything they're carrying, it all carrying it all to the point they don't have to there's a partner in the relationship, you know, and so I think that's one of the negative effects.

Speaker 4: 21:59

Sometimes, when you get to a place where you're like your wife is also like a kid, and there's no voice.

Speaker 4: 22:03

And there's even in the bible, right, I know, sometimes in the christian space we've used the whole wife submits your husband, man, um, you're the leader of your home sometimes to belittle women. Women and something that I've often shared with women, you know, when the Bible says that God wanted to create someone for Adam, who was a help meet for him, that word helper or help meet is actually the same word they use for the Holy Spirit, which is the other part of the Trinity, god, right, and that word helper is basically saying that this woman is equally met to be able to help the man. And so I often tell women like you're not just helping, like the help, you've literally been put on the same level in some ways as the holy spirit in a man's life. Like that is very powerful. I think all of us men, we should want a woman that can speak, can challenge us, can say you tripping right here, bro, like, can call out the booger in our nose so that we don't go out there looking crazy you know right.

Speaker 3: 22:55

So anyway, good point. He has another one here if a man cares about how much money you make. He's scheming, scheming for to do it. That's a well, I guess that's a question from a real man, right? Because I'm like what do you mean? I'm scheming, scheming for what?

Speaker 5: 23:09

but you want to move, but you want her to be a gold digger, exactly right the Right, the double standard, no, no.

Speaker 3: 23:14

Listen, he contradicts himself all the time but again you can tell. Is the audience going to analyze this and say, wait a second?

Speaker 3: 23:20

this makes no sense Right, Because the audience is just clicking likes and sharing because they want to send a message to one person in particular. When I met my wife, things moved pretty rapidly. She was just like this is how much money I make. That's what the bonus looks like, Because the goal was we're going to put our assets together and we're going to put our heads together and this effort together so we can fight this thing called life. So it makes sense that we have these discussions about finances. But he's looking at it differently.

Speaker 1: 23:45

Depending on, like you said, how fast the relationship is moving. That's an important topic that falls in line with how you want to raise your kids. Again, what your religious beliefs are what you expect as a husband and a wife and the financial aspect of it. What are you bringing? What am I bringing? When we come together, what we'll be able to do as a unit, that's an adult relationship. That's a word right.

Speaker 3: 24:12

That's adulting. Yeah, how do we not talk about?

Speaker 1: 24:15

yeah, that's that's not scheming, you know what is?

Speaker 3: 24:18

he 16 no, dude, he's a grown man, I would say late 30s probably, maybe a little younger, who knows? Because he's definitely, like I said, social media influencing and I guess you can go back to asking what his upbringing look.

Speaker 5: 24:30

Yeah, you know, a lot of times I find that people like that.

Speaker 1: 24:34

He may have had a normal upbringing, but he found a niche correct okay he's exploiting that niche. Okay, you're going to like this one.

Speaker 3: 24:45

If the man is insecure about you, he thinks that you are better than him.

Speaker 4: 24:51

You know what's funny about that? I feel like that's one of those gender double standards, like that word in general, right, sometimes it can get an overly negative or a shaming connotation. So if you're insecure, oh man, you're insecure when really insecurity is, I don't feel safe. Say that one more time. Insecurity just means I don't feel safe. Say that one more time. Insecurity just means I don't feel safe, right, and so first let's just say if the man does feel insecure, I don't think the first solution is to just shame him. Let's talk about it. Why don't you feel safe with me going out and doing this? And that? Is this something that you've experienced, right? Great?

Speaker 3: 25:21

point. But you know, that's exactly what it is A good majority of the time. If we expose that insecurity, which is simply, when you put it that way, you explain what it is. I don't feel safe in this situation. I don't feel safe with you. We're made to feel ashamed for exposing that. You're insecure because you know I look good, I'm going out, you know.

Speaker 1: 25:40

And I think it also stems it could be from past trauma.

Speaker 4: 25:44

Yep.

Speaker 1: 25:44

They could have been in a previous relationship. The man that is.

Speaker 3: 25:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:48

Okay, yeah, if he was in a previous relationship and, let's say, significant other cheated on him and she was with her girls when she did it, that could generate this unsafe feeling. Okay, you going out with your girlfriends the last time and it's my last time that happened. Dexter showed up, so yeah, I don't want you To go out with your girlfriends.

Speaker 4: 26:10

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 26:11

Because of my personal trauma.

Speaker 3: 26:13

Yeah, is that fair? No, that's not fair, that's not fair. So then, that's that's the part when you talk about it, right? Yeah, that's all that is. That's to your point. I think that's past trauma, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Not so much insecurity.

Speaker 3: 26:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:25

Is past trauma and he's acting on that past trauma that's a good distinction to make.

Speaker 4: 26:29

Sometimes an insecurity can come from past trauma. Sometimes it just could be like a safety, because if it's a past trauma, now we can talk through it. And how do we get over the hump? Because ultimately it's not fair to the women, either because you're making her um responsible for what happened to you in the past and she's not. She's not that person.

Speaker 3: 26:45

Exactly she's not so to your point, she should have the presence of mind to say this person that I care very much about is feeling possibly unsafe in this particular situation. Let's talk about it, let's address it Right, because you can say the last time this happened I was dating someone who went on a girl strip and I don't want that to be.

Speaker 5: 27:04

She ran into Dexter.

Speaker 4: 27:06

She ran into Dexter you know, on the beach in Jamaica Dexter finna become the pseudonym for it's always Dexter bro.

Speaker 3: 27:13

You know, hey Gial, how you doing.

Speaker 1: 27:16

You're doing. Beautiful woman by yourself, beautiful woman like you. Wait, you're.

Speaker 4: 27:20

Jamaican.

Speaker 2: 27:21

No, I'm not Gosh.

Speaker 4: 27:23

That was good, that was good.

Speaker 2: 27:25

But everybody knows that, that's Eddie.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Murphy right.

Speaker 3: 27:29

So I think it's your responsibility to say I feel this way, but it's also her responsibility to say what's making you feel this way. If you care enough about each other, you kind of step in to say let's address this. The reason we were attracted physically before we did anything is before she opened her mouth. We saw her, we were like, oh shit, this is someone I'd like to talk to, this is someone I can see myself being with, and then you proceeded from there. So that hasn't changed. Sometimes, you know, over time, they look even better.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:54

Sometimes, they don't. I don't know, but the whole insecurity thing is one of those things where I don't think it means that we think she's better than we are or that she's above my station. Now there's legitimate insecurities. Maybe there's no trauma whatsoever, maybe it's just I don't want you wearing that because you look a little scandalous in that I don't want you going out.

Speaker 1: 28:15

You got to ask the question when you met her was she dressing that way? Yeah, that's a good point, that's a really good point, and if the answer is no, you know, then you have to look at, okay. You have to look at okay, why all of a sudden now you decided you want to dress this way? It reminds me when I was younger, I dated a young woman. When I met her, you know, she always dressed Conservative.

Speaker 3: 28:35

No, oh hot the direct opposite.

Speaker 5: 28:37

Okay, she was that girl.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Yeah, she was that girl Walk in the room, everybody turning around like whoa, you know, she was that girl. Once we started dating she didn't change the way she dressed. And, my friends, man, you, you know, you let your girl go out like that. You know you, and I didn't have a problem with it because that's what attracted me to her right how she looked.

Speaker 1: 28:58

I'm like, why would I want to change? I'm confident in my situation, you know. I'm saying because we had conversations and I expressed the opinions of other people and I was doing that more or less to just kind of make her aware. I wasn't trying to tell her she should change, but just be knowledgeable, you know. And her retort was OK. That's their problem, because I know who I am as a person. I'm not loose, I'm not this. I'm about my business. I look good in what I wear and I like to wear what I want to wear. Cool, if you like it, I love it. Yeah, when I would get this feedback from my boys, I had to look into myself and say, okay, am I gonna?

Speaker 5: 29:37

allow their opinion, the peer pressure to mess up my relationship.

Speaker 1: 29:39

So my thing was you know, hey, I ain't got a problem with it yeah and you know we dated for many years. See you, my cousin man, you crazy. I would never let my girl Well, that's your girl, that's why you having problems.

Speaker 5: 29:52

But it goes back to that now you're spending more time with her versus them, so let's see if we can build a wedge in between this. So we have to be mindful of when we are dating and when we finally get married.

Speaker 1: 30:05

That's the same with girlfriends. They do the same thing, and when we finally get married.

Speaker 5: 30:07

That's the same with girlfriends. They do the same thing.

Speaker 3: 30:09

I was going to say they do the exact thing I was going to say I guess they do, but I have never had a friend like that, and if I do, I don't know him.

Speaker 4: 30:17

I don't know who that is. I don't have any friends like that Because.

Speaker 3: 30:21

I can imagine. We're hanging out all the time, merlin, and all of a sudden you find this girl that you're super happy with and all of a sudden I feel like, oh, you don't spend as much time with me, no more.

Speaker 5: 30:28

Nick what are you talking about? But honestly B you have those guys that are.

Speaker 1: 30:34

I think it may be more or less envy that you have that woman and they don't Like with some women. They see a woman with a good man and they don't have one.

Speaker 4: 30:48

So you know they do little things to sabotage.

Speaker 1: 30:50

Misery loves company where you got your friends, your boys, you know they oh man, he ain't the same, no more, since he got with old girl, you know? No, I'm not that's right, that's right I'm not, that's right.

Speaker 4: 30:58

I was gonna say why would you want me to be the same?

Speaker 1: 31:01

because they are stuck, yeah, yeah, and they want you to be stuck with them right now, bro I got one here.

Speaker 3: 31:07

That's where he just contradicts himself over the next two statements. One statement is he's out not responding to your text with God knows who, Probably that hoe, let's see who can be the bigger hoe. This is again. Remind you, this is a man saying this to women. You're not always in meetings looking at your text responding immediately. If my wife calls me to text me, I don't respond. She chills.

Speaker 3: 31:31

But, she knows I'm probably with a customer Right. Something's happening. If she calls me twice and she calls me once, I don't answer. She calls me right back. Whatever I'm doing, I'm dropping Because I'm like my wife never does this. This might be an emergency. And then she's like I'm sorry, I butt dialed you. I'm like, come on, man, but me not responding to your text in whatever you deem a reasonable time does not mean I'm doing anything wrong, and that's what he's basically saying. So you know what? Why don't I jump the gun and go be a hoe?

Speaker 4: 31:59

because he's probably being a hoe so he just sees a mistrust and, on the flip side, even if he was right, is that really how you want to respond, tit for tat, not saying that you should stick with him or anything like that, but what would you want to do? That you know, I'm saying.

Speaker 5: 32:12

Well, you don't even know the situation.

Speaker 1: 32:14

That's true as to why he's not responding to the text yeah, like you said you jumped in the gun for something that you don't really know what's going on like I may be looking at something on my phone and the volume is up and I'll turn the volume down. I accidentally turned down my ring volume. Okay, if I don't know this and my wife calls, she may call a couple. I don't hear the phone and you know I'm I'm a beast at looking, checking my phone every few minutes and I see okay, I got a couple of missed calls.

Speaker 1: 32:39

I called back and she asked me you know, I called a couple of times. You didn't answer. Yeah, my ringer was down, I didn't know it, that's that. Yeah, exactly, and you're not calling back the next day. It's like you know, within an hour or whatever. A lot of times I'm not able to answer no calls because when I'm working on my clients, my attention is on my client. I'm not going to be on the phone, like you say. If it's an instance where I get two calls back to back, okay, what's up? People call me all day. I get to you when I get to you, when I get exactly right.

Speaker 3: 33:05

So then the contradiction is this you're gonna love this. If a man is texting you all day long, that man is not busy enough what wow right, you see how he's just messing with people that's crazy. A lot of people will say women don't know what they want because, you'll ask for this, you'll ask for that, but then when you get, it turns out it's not what you want. You wanted something else. Well, this is too much of it. I want a sensitive man. Well, it doesn't get crying shit I don't want that anymore.

Speaker 4: 33:30

I don't like that you know.

Speaker 3: 33:32

I'm feeling safe now because he's weak right.

Speaker 5: 33:34

So now, just because he cries, doesn't mean he's weak. Of course not. No, no, of course not. Of course not. That's not what. No, no, no, that's not what we're saying.

Speaker 4: 33:41

We're saying that her, yeah, exactly as well, exactly, but the whole they don't know what they want is what he's playing on right now that's what I was gonna he's playing on that essentially trying to create women who, no matter what type of healthy relationship in there, they're, internally gonna feel unstable, insecure and always suspicious he's on those seas of doubt and you say he has how many followers I'm convinced that social media is about making the human race regress.

Speaker 3: 34:08

I don't know how many say he has how many followers. I'm convinced that social media is about making the human race regress. I don't know how many followers he has. I haven't been on his page, but when I saw this clip that this woman shared, I saw that it had been viewed I want to say 20,000, 30,000 times Wow. So these are videos that are being shared. That's probably going to hit a million views easily.

Speaker 1: 34:23

So again he's pandering to a particular segment. Yeah, big time, and they eating it up.

Speaker 5: 34:28

It would not have gotten that much traction had it not been for people sharing it, yeah, and if you're sharing it because you're like oh, I believe this, let me share with my homegirls, Let me just put on my page, or to send messages to them. Are they really believe in it or they're sharing this? Do you understand this clown?

Speaker 1: 34:45

No, I don't think so I think is, you know, they probably have experienced something in their life that he may have said and oh he on it.

Speaker 3: 34:54

Yeah, that struck a chord.

Speaker 1: 34:56

No, that brain. Yeah, he on something, but he ain't on that yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:04

I have one more that's interesting here. Don't ask men that haven't had a job in the last five years, walking around talking about I'm the prize, I'm the prize.

Speaker 5: 35:13

Well, he needs to get a job. Yeah, number one.

Speaker 4: 35:17

So what do we agree?

Speaker 3: 35:19

I think this is what I want to give him, so I'll give him a pass and go all right. Cool, Because number one. You're not the prize.

Speaker 3: 35:25

Number one. I don't think any of us should be walking around going I'm the prize. You can say, hey, this is what I bring to the table. I have a lot of confidence in who I am. I know that if someone gets with me, that I will add value to their lives. But this phrase of I'm the prize, as if I need to be chased and pursued and you know, I think that's again to use that word that I used earlier I think it's dangerous for men to start thinking that way but you know, you know, there are men who believe that.

Speaker 1: 35:49

Well, you know, kevin salmon used to say that all the time the high value man is the prize the women you know, because women always say that they're the prize and he always would say a high value man is the prize.

Speaker 5: 36:02

Because he brings so much to the table but if you've not worked in five years you're certainly not a damn prize. Well, if you you're a bum at that point, absolutely, and if even with that right, to whom?

Speaker 3: 36:16

because you could be the prize to someone who has no hope of meeting someone like yourself. If you go into the bottom of the barrel and you scrape someone from the bottom of the barrel, sure you're the prize right, but to a woman who has a self-worth, who takes care of herself, who brings all these things to the table, whether they be physical, financial or all the intangibles.

Speaker 3: 36:36

You're not the price. You guys basically complement each other in a way that allow both of you to grow. So that's why I don't like that phrase at all of who's the prize, because if you believe that she's the prize, there's a problem in that relationship. Right, you can't live without her.

Speaker 1: 36:48

You put her above you and then there you go, you got a problem.

Speaker 4: 36:51

Yeah, I agree with that key takeaways, knowing that there's been multiple, maybe different versions of people like this on social media.

Speaker 4: 36:58

It definitely challenges me from a therapy standpoint to continue to do the work of talking with men and women and marriages and couples, because, on one hand, we're kind of fighting against social media. Yeah, people who are struggling in marriage and stuff are probably going to hear from social media before they hear from a therapist, right? I think I said earlier, vina, you said something off the air and I was like man, like that's old school wisdom. People are going to hear social media before you even hear old school wisdom, right. So I think one it's just challenging me to put more of that out there, because something's got to combat this nonsense, right, and I think too, I think it's just reminding me man, like whether you're high value men or high value women, the value is not just on the things that you bring but how you serve the person that you say you love, versus how me using that stuff to make myself look good or to be entitled, you know. So whoever this dude is, shuts his page down and eventually he's like man, this was trash.

Speaker 3: 37:47

That may never happen, but yeah, like I said I mentioned earlier before we started recording with derrick jackson right because he was writing books and he was always like shitting on men.

Speaker 3: 37:56

Well, if a man loves you, he's gonna know within the first five minutes he's gonna do this. He don't show up. You need to go and kick that man to the curb again. You're not taking any of the variants into consideration. Yeah, the man ain't call you back in five minutes. You don't love you. Wait a minute. What? What is he doing? Yeah, what's happening in that relationship? Right, exactly, context matters and when you throw things out there like that that are out of context or without context, without shaping, it again, it creates a situation to where you're gonna have this gender war that's gonna propagate.

Speaker 3: 38:23

and the worst thing and again to me, again, which is the biggest issue that I have is that it's affecting us as people more than it's affecting any other race, because they still know who the hell they are and they know what they got going on in their household.

Speaker 1: 38:35

And they don't have the same problem that we have to deal with.

Speaker 3: 38:38

Very true.

Speaker 1: 38:38

And I think with this gentleman he's doing the same thing that Kevin Samuels, the other guy you mentioned, steve Harvey.

Speaker 3: 38:47

That's another one.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Yeah, they find they find things that are within our community, that are issued. They pander to the women because they know they're the ones that's gonna listen and they're gonna buy the books, they're gonna listen to the, the podcast or whatever, and and it's all about the clicks and and the purchases and all that because back when they had their book, think like a man with with Steve Harvey. My thing was you know some of the things, a lot of the things they were saying yeah, you can relate that to some men, but he was doing that like it was across the board. All of us think the same way and everybody, everybody doesn't think the same way, we're not a monolith Right.

Speaker 1: 39:26

You know, we all have different backgrounds, different upbringings, so the way we process, the way we handle certain situations is going to be unique to each and every one of us. But the way he painted it is like. This is how men think in general. It's coming from a man, so, oh, it must be true. Yeah, he's giving all the secrets.

Speaker 3: 39:45

Yeah, he's giving the secrets.

Speaker 1: 39:48

He be true, yeah, he's giving all the secrets he's giving.

Speaker 5: 39:49

Yeah, he's getting secrets. He tell you what you want to hear right, so you can buy his book. Like you said, you know that's not all men, and so the takeaway is this we have to reinforce and re-educate our partner to understand that we're individuals, so we're going to operate as an individual and not paint us with the same brush that's been used for everyone else, Because again that's going to diminish our relationship.

Speaker 1: 40:12

And I think podcasts like this is one of the ways that we can combat that. Correct when you have different opinions from different men from different backgrounds, because we're thinking logically, you know, and we're not blanketing everything and everyone is the same way. That's probably what is needed. Let's not just let him be the only voice that's heard.

Speaker 3: 40:33

Yeah, if they seek us out, then they'll find us. We're not. We're not making enough controversial statements to get the likes and the clicks. One thing about podcasts is that it's an evergreen medium. This conversation can be heard in 2040, right so, because it's always going to be needed right so yeah, great point, gentlemen yeah, I appreciate you guys so much for being on the podcast with me today and having this wonderful conversation.

Speaker 1: 40:56

Yeah, it's one wonderful day to start my son yeah, um.

Speaker 3: 41:01

So now we have to do the outro, so who you gonna be vino?

Speaker 1: 41:05

I was looking at rocky last night. I think I'm going to do Sylvester Stallone Hold on.

Speaker 2: 41:10

He's like I got to get right. Hey, y'all, please support our. See, I'm already sad, your Adrian. Please support us by following the show Me and Pauly. We left a five-star review on this Apple podcast. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with. You know every, every, hey, paulie, paulie, tell me what this word is. Every day, every day. You know manhood, manhood matters.

Speaker 3: 42:06

We're out, yeah, man yeah man, way to get into it, buddy, way to get into it. But manhood matters, we're out. Yeah man. Yeah man, way to get into it, buddy, way to get into it. That's what's up. All good, pauly.

Speaker 4: 42:15

That was great. The pauses were yeah. The pauses were yeah. It took me back to that physical strife hustling heart, repulsive life, increased love and our entrepreneurs climb real tall echoes in fine time. Experts and friends. A powerful blend tackling issues that never end. From our perspective, we're true, a podcast for all but our point of view.