Speaker 1: 0:00

You have to start bringing back is because I remember I was growing up my dad would call me out on it and I have to go back and like, go back and do this, go back. And so I think, just reteaching that with two young boys, of taking your time in the morning, the evenings, to make sure you do that, because they move in too fast, you know.

Speaker 2: 0:15

I can add to that too. It's building up a habit, but also a ritual. I'm into, like the skincare thing. Have a good routine for yourself, because when you're stepping out that door and getting ready to take on the day, you want to be the best version of yourself when you step out the door and coming back into you.

Speaker 3: 0:35

From personal grooming manicure, pedicures, how to properly wear cologne, having a sense of fashion. You would think that these things would be intuitive, innate, but they're not. Men have to learn all that stuff or, at the very least, be exposed to them. Ladies, for that dude in your life whose feet look like he should have had a starting role on Jurassic Park, that's not normal, and you probably think it is because you're like well, I just guys. No, it's not. Trust me, we can do better. And fellas, not only is it perfectly okay to take care of yourself, personal grooming is a required part of your life. We find ourselves today in a conversation with young therapist Quinton, military veteran veteran Kelly and the owners of the men's refinery, alvino and Curtis. It's a place where we can get manicures, pedicures, facials, tailored suits, chill back in the pool room or even enjoy the golf simulator. So when it comes to personal grooming for men, these guys are the experts, so we went to them for this very insightful dialogue.

Speaker 3: 1:46

Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it. It's going to be a super cool episode, because this is something I've been wanting to talk about. People talk about metrosexuals, people talk about grooming. I even heard women, grown women, complaining about personal hygiene from their dudes. So there's so many things that we can touch on here, and it's not just about pampering ourselves, coming in for a manicure and pedicure. There's so much more to it and this, I think, is more of a gift yeah, to ourselves, but I think, to our partners, our spouses how we take care of ourselves, how we show up. So I want to introduce first the owner of this dope ass establishment. It's called the Men's Refinery and I want to tell you real quick, cedric, I thought about something like this a long time ago. Years ago, I was going to call it the lion's den, and then I realized it was about 15 lion's dens that already existed, but it wasn't a passion of mine, it was just something that I felt was missing. I was living in Memphis, tennessee. I felt something like this was missing.

Speaker 4: 2:46

Yeah, thank you, absolutely. I'm Cedric Mews. I'm the owner of the Men's Refinery. The Men's Refinery is a clothing and grooming lounge specifically set up for men. We offer haircut shaves, manicures, pedicures for men. We do custom clothing, custom shoes. We have a members lounge and also a golf lounge, and I came up with this concept I don't know, it's probably been 15 years ago and the reason that I came up with it is because my wife invited me to come out and get a manicure and pedicure with her, so she drug me to the salon and I actually really, really enjoy the experience.

Speaker 4: 3:33

But I hated the environment. Yeah, you know, I know what you mean. The smell of what is it? Acetone in the air. Yeah, and even the other women that were in there. You know, there were women that were sitting across from me. They had on skirts that looked like belts, so they were constantly crossing their legs. I could tell that they were uncomfortable with me sitting across from them. So I was thinking, man, it'd be really nice to create a place where a man can go and comfortably get services like this done. And I partnered up with Alvino Sanders, who was my barber at the time, and my other partner, gary Moore, and Gary kind of specializes in the clothing side of it, vino kind of specializes on the grooming side of it, and for me I'm pretty much operations that's kind of my background. So we kind of all teamed up. I pitched the concept to them, we put in the work, sweat equity and created the men's refinery.

Speaker 3: 4:31

It's a beautiful place. I walked in here this morning. I was totally impressed. You hit the nail on the head, brother, I appreciate it. It's a great place, and I can't wait to start coming here. It's a little drive away, but it's one of those things where you, just like you, dedicate a day just taking care of yourself everywhere in atlanta is a destination man.

Speaker 4: 4:48

What exactly?

Speaker 3: 4:49

exactly, and who would you introduce yourself, brother?

Speaker 1: 4:52

my name is quentin quentin opong. I am well, first and foremost, um, I would identify myself as a disciple of jesus, a believer. I'm a husband and I'm also a therapist a mental health health therapist almost five years now and, man, I enjoy it. I tell people all the time it's a calling. Most people I don't think wake up when they're kids and say I want to be a therapist, but it finds you, you know it finds you, and so I just really enjoyed this work and Cedric was talking about men having space. I particularly have found more and more the more I've done this work, how much men don't feel like they have that space just to either be pampered, to take their armor off, as I usually say in therapy. That's just been a big passion of mine these past couple of years just really being that space, that safe space for men. And so I'm glad to be here, I'm excited to learn.

Speaker 2: 5:54

Thank you for having me, man. I appreciate you being here, brother, yeah, hey, this is Kelly Saunders. I'm the founder of Elevate Transitioning Service Members, which is a nonprofit dedicated to helping veterans transition from service back into civilian society. And then I'm also on the planning committee for the Brotherless Talk About it initiative for the 100 Black Men of South Metro Atlanta. I'm just excited to be here again to talk on veterans transitioning and grooming, but to hear other perspectives as well.

Speaker 3: 6:09

So let's jump right into it. So let's talk about image perception versus reality. Why does image matter? Let's start with you, cedric. What are your thoughts on it?

Speaker 4: 6:17

Image is everything. And the reason I say that? Because your image gives the people around you a perception of who you are and people make an opinionated guess of who you are within the first three seconds of when they meet you. So image doesn't always have to be dressed up. You know, you mentioned that you're most comfortable in your T-shirt and that's okay. But when you couple your grooming with that, your eyewear, your beard, your haircut, all of that helps to make your image.

Speaker 4: 6:51

It's important, depending on which space you're operating in. If you're going for a job interview, you want your perception to look a certain type of way. If you're trying to entice a young lady, you want your image to look a certain type of way. And if you're just hanging out with the guys, you want your image to look a certain type of way. But there's something called perception and reality, because many times with your image, the perception is your individual thoughts about how you look, about how you feel about yourself, and then there's a reality portion of it, especially when it comes to fashion. I had the privilege of helping out in a fashion show a couple of days ago and they bought in a group of models. All of them had their own look, their own perception of who they are. And, it's interesting, I dressed three different guys in a more traditional look. It was so much different than what they were used to. Right, they never saw themselves that way Exactly.

Speaker 4: 7:54

Exactly, and one of the things that they asked me. They were like how did you know I would look good in this outfit? There are certain aspects of dress that most anyone will look at and say that looks nice. And then there are the extremes. Think about the 1970s the pimp look If we were to see somebody walking in and something like that is going to catch our attention. But is it going to be positive attention or negative?

Speaker 3: 8:24

attention More like comical attention. Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 4: 8:28

So the person that's wearing that has a certain perception about how they look, but what's the reality?

Speaker 3: 8:36

Yeah, I don't have stats on it, but if I had to just do a quick observation, especially with our folks, when I look around, they're more concerned about how others view them in the sense of name brand and things like that. I will never in a million years wear somebody's name across my chest.

Speaker 3: 8:52

You'll never see a Gucci, balenciaga, whatever the hell names out there, it's not my name, right, so it doesn't make sense to me Now, if we're talking quality and we're talking craftsmanship, I might spend a lot of money getting something, but yet I'm not advertising it, if that makes sense. So I guess the question is and I can ask any of you guys how do you feel about the whole showing up for yourself, being comfortable being?

Speaker 1: 9:19

clean, being groomed, versus oh, I need people to see that I've got this brand on. Yeah, just to speak to that a little bit. One thing I didn't mention in the intro so I'm also African. Right, I'm Ghanaian, and my dad growing up, my dad is a huge fashion guy. He likes to make bold statements, so my dad's the type of guy who wear maroon on maroon, with maroon shoes and maroon socks, and might have a maroon watch. Right, he's coming in.

Speaker 4: 9:40

We call that a one piece yes exactly right that sounds.

Speaker 5: 9:44

African yeah, for sure exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:46

Oh man, bold colors in Haiti. They call that a complete yes, actually we use the same word wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 3: 9:54

Yeah, we call that a complete that means from toes head to toe. Man, you got that one piece color and you start getting.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Come back, chale, you look complete you look complete.

Speaker 5: 10:03

That's yeah, man, and so for me growing, you start getting.

Speaker 1: 10:05

come back Chale, you look complete, you look complete. That's yeah, man, and so for me growing up, he has that piece about him.

Speaker 5: 10:09

but he also is a big Tommy guy, Tommy.

Speaker 4: 10:10

Hilfiger.

Speaker 1: 10:10

So I was born in Italy, I grew up in Italy for a little bit and then he lived there with my mom for a while, so got in Tommy Hilfiger stuff. But I remember, as I was starting to come up this idea that, man, when I put this on, people are going to associate a certain level of status, a certain level of wealth with that we all can attest to, like people who are not really fashionable but they're just throwing the name brand. My best man at my wedding we used to room together. One of the things that I used to talk to him about is like man, how do you put yourself together? He was always so fashionable and I remember he always used to share how. For him it wasn't about the brand, it was about being creative right, and creativity comes from within.

Speaker 1: 10:51

You can tell when somebody is just copying something or they're being original, and so I think, when you go back to the question of showing up for yourself, you know, in therapy we often talk about this idea of the perceived image and then the actual image Right. We often talk about this idea of the perceived image and then the actual image Right, and a lot of times our actual image is the part of us that we really are afraid for people to see. Right, it's the one that's hidden, it's the one that only maybe close, close people to us know or see, and the perceived image is the one that we want everybody to see, because we're really, at the end of the day, sometimes afraid of being vulnerable. And so I find that if we can tap into that actual image and be okay with it, like you said, like I don't care, I don't care who thinks what of me, like I know who I am internally, whatever you wear, however you show up, people are attracted to that. People are attracted to uniqueness. No one wants just to see multiple carbon copies.

Speaker 1: 11:39

And I think the other thing I would add when I work a lot of teen, teen boys. This is a big thing that I'm often wrestling with, because if a lot of my teen boys they're now be trying to figure out who they are right, but particularly in this generation, gen Z, gen Alpha they got so much information coming at them telling them who they should be. Absolutely so when I'm asking a teen boy, like why you want to be a twitch streamer, why you want to do that, all they can give me is well, you know, the girls like it, or man, you know, I saw this social media person doing it. They can't fully tell me their why. Right, I think that's just so, so important to do that so that we don't have a bunch of young boys becoming men who are lost it drives me crazy like I.

Speaker 3: 12:16

I went into a store I don't remember if it was louis or something else, but we're in viami. I went to a store with a friend of mine and you know I wouldn't be caught dead in that store. It had nothing to do with the money man, it just had to do with the fact that it felt pompous to me. We went in and he's looking at these shoes and they're sneakers, right, and they have metal all over them like spice and stuff like that. It's a $3,000 pair of sneakers. I'm like for what? That doesn't matter if I have the money to throw me.

Speaker 3: 12:41

The only reason I'm wearing that is so someone else could look at it and go that's interesting and notice the brand name and know that this guy's got $3,000 shoes on. That's all. This is a statement. Would you put that on for any other reason? I don't mean to criticize people who do, because there are people that I know I'm wearing Nike. It's Nike all the way down to the socks and that doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand it, but I was 20. I'm not 20 anymore.

Speaker 3: 13:02

So I don't understand how that still works with grown men.

Speaker 4: 13:06

One of the things you know, being in the fashion industry, that I see is entertainment leads fashion 100%. So a lot of people that aren't comfortable at who they are or have established an identity. That's what they look to. An identity that's what they look to. I deal with different customers and a lot of times they talk to me about a certain brand of suit or a certain brand of clothes and I'm like I have no idea who that is and they're like, but you're in the fashion industry. How do you not know who that is? I said are you concerned about a certain brand or a look?

Speaker 4: 13:42

because you can create great quality, a great look, and it doesn't have to be a particular brand. And being in the clothing industry, see, I understand behind the scenes. I understand that some of these off the rack $2,000 suits come down the same line as a three or $400 suit and in the back they have all of these different tags and, depending on who your brand is, they pull that tag and they put it in that suit and they send it out to the whichever so the only difference, then, cedric, is the tag that's on there in some cases.

Speaker 4: 14:21

Now I will say the different, different brands put a little more into the quality, you know, but it can still go through the same factory to be manufactured. It just may be okay. My brand is going to have pick stitching. My brand is going to have workable buttons to give it a more expensive.

Speaker 3: 14:41

Look Right, and you know it's funny. You should say that because I spent a lot of years in corporate America and in sales, so I was always suit and tie. I mean, you know, I'm one of those guys with a bow tie. You'll never catch me with a clip on. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 5: 14:54

I know how to tie a bow tie right.

Speaker 3: 14:56

You know I buy certain suits. I'd go to whatever store there is, spend $500, $600 on a suit, $1,000 on a suit. But my most expensive suit to date and I started learning from another dude kind of like yourself it has no brand, it just was at a place like this.

Speaker 3: 15:14

I went in yeah, it was in Nashville Picking not just the measurements, but from picking the fabric to material what do you want on the inside? What do you want that to look like? What do you want this to look? What kind of stitching. He was asking me questions that I didn't even know existed. I didn't know what I didn't know and I was like dude, I have no clue. You need to guide me. I mean, I already knew going in it was going to be expensive, right, right, but the brand on the suit is a label with my name on it, right, absolutely, because you can get it done any way you want. So it's myself and my wife's name on it and a date. I hate when I hear someone, especially men oh man, this is so-and-so, this is Balenciaga. Them shoes are ugly, bro. What are you talking about? Why is it a hundred thousand?

Speaker 5: 15:50

I don't know how much it costs, but like, yeah, it's stupid as you.

Speaker 3: 15:53

I don't understand why you would spend a lot of money Cause if that was sitting at pay less for $15, you wouldn't look at it twice.

Speaker 4: 16:08

Absolutely, and you know we just get caught up into that. Everything is about brand, everything is about how much it costs and quality gets lost.

Speaker 4: 16:13

And when I tell you, for a lot of the big brands that are in the industry, they love it, of course, because they don't have to spend money on their end putting in the quality you know. To find a good quality pair of dress shoes now it's almost impossible. People throw around the term bespoke suits and I want to talk about the difference between a made-to-measure suit and a true bespoke suit. With a made-to-measure suit, someone takes all of your measurements. You can pick out your fabric. They send it to wherever the manufacturer is and they put together your suit. They send it back. You probably have a local tailor that makes whatever adjustments need to be made.

Speaker 4: 16:55

But it's still done in a manufacturing facility. So what I do is kind of a combination of bespoke and made to measure Because of my tailor is not here, he's in bangladesh, so I have to take all the measurements. He sends me all of the suit books, so these are the same suit books as far as the fabrics that he has. So I pick out the fabric, do your design, I send all your measurements over to them and they hand make the suits. So that's a true bespoke suit.

Speaker 3: 17:26

I was going to say, yeah, just because he's not sitting here in your shop. But that's bespoke.

Speaker 4: 17:31

yeah, yeah, the only difference is a true bespoke is you come here, you pick out your fabric. The tailor will get the fabric. He'll take your measurements, he'll pre-sew the suit. You'll come back in, he'll try it on. You take more measurements and you go through a process of three or four of those fittings. So when you're finished, oh, it's a perfect fit you know, as opposed to having to send it out somewhere.

Speaker 4: 17:54

But I did a lot of training sessions with my tailor. He shows me exactly how to make the same measurements that he would do, so once we get your suit back, it's a great fit.

Speaker 3: 18:05

I had no clue. All that was involved. Right, yeah, that explains why it costs a lot of money Switch gears. This must have come up quite a bit at the men's refinery men's baldness and the psychological and emotional impact. Why do you bring that up? Is that something that people here struggle with?

Speaker 4: 18:24

Well, actually I'm going to let my business partner Alvino speak on that. He's the expert.

Speaker 3: 18:30

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 18:31

He is a master barber. He's been barbering for what? 30 plus years. He is the expert on that and I'm going to tag him in to speak on that.

Speaker 3: 18:40

Yeah, tag him in, come, take a seat right next to him and just uh Alvino can talk about this man.

Speaker 6: 18:44

He's still got hair Welcome brother, hey how you doing, how you doing Going good man, Introduce yourself if you don't mind. My name is Alvino Sanders. Everybody affectionately calls me Vino. As Cedric mentioned, I've been in the hair industry for 30 plus years. I've worked on all types of hair. I do women's hair as well. But since we started the men's refinery, you know, I've kind of focused my energy on helping men with their appearance.

Speaker 3: 19:11

I remember I started thinning when I was in my twenties. What's crazy is, for me it was extreme right Cause I had every type of hairstyle. But then I had locks, so I went from having locks going down to my back, but it was thinning, you know, and I struggled with that.

Speaker 3: 19:24

I try to cover it up, cause again, I'm in my twenties. I'm like what's going on? And I remember my oldest. She was four years old, so now I'm 30. And it got to the point where I was just like if you were sitting behind me and I lean back, you'd be like dude, you need to do something about this Like this is ridiculous. I had one dude called me Predator. Remember Predator? Oh, no Because you had hands of

Speaker 5: 19:47

water, oh my.

Speaker 3: 19:47

God, I had another Jamaican dude.

Speaker 1: 19:51

That's ruthless Imagine.

Speaker 5: 19:53

Grew up in New York Right, and this was my friend.

Speaker 3: 19:56

Duh, these are friends, by the way. Right, I had another friend of mine, a Jamaican dude. He used to call me me bald head dread he's like how are you going?

Speaker 3: 20:05

to be bald and dread the same Meanwhile it's very common in Jamaica. But I digress, I'll be totally honest here, man, I considered other options. I considered I saw this commercial. I was like there's got to be something I can do, right. So I go into this clinic and I'm with my little girl this time. You know, she was always my ride or die. She's with me.

Speaker 3: 20:22

We were spending the day together and I go into this place and I thought it was some kind of medication or maybe they put some kind of ointment and it grows back. So they do this full consultation, spend an hour with me going back and forth, and towards the end, when it's time to close, they hit me with this little well, we can graph this patch and it's basically, it's a toupee, right, right, and this is like a patch with dreads and I'm like y'all kidding me, that's coming. They're like yeah, just, you know you can go in the pool, everything will be cool, but if you don't come back because you have to come back to them to maintain this process- there's a business, yeah, it's like if you don't come back and you go a month without it, you might jump in the pool and this shit might just float away.

Speaker 3: 21:03

Right, you know I'm. You know what? Come on, baby, grab my baby girl. I was like I'm out of here. I went to the nearest barbershop and I said shave it all off, which traumatized my daughter because she had never seen me any different from the time she was born to me having long hair.

Speaker 3: 21:19

That's all she knew. And she's sitting there and she's watching these people just shave my head, shit flipping out right. I'm like it's okay, it's okay. Very next day I went to work. No one recognized me. I just walk in. Who's this new guy, right?

Speaker 5: 21:29

because that's how different.

Speaker 3: 21:30

I look wow. And then one guy says to me you got a nice shape head and that kind of like did it for me. I don't know why?

Speaker 2: 21:36

it was something as simple. Because I was like, as long as I get a nice shape head, I was like, right, because you don't know what's under there, right your whole life. You don't know what's under there, right your whole life you don't know what's under there.

Speaker 3: 21:44

And he goes, you got a nice shaped head. He was like you're one of the few ones who can get away with it. I was like, oh cool, and my confidence was right back up. But I did struggle with that for a long time leading up to it. It was kind of like you're scared to jump, but when you jump you're like it's not a big deal.

Speaker 5: 21:58

Yeah.

Speaker 6: 21:59

The way society perceives baldness involvedness. It varies. It's more accepted now thanks to individuals like Michael Jordan.

Speaker 5: 22:07

Hell yeah, 90s, baby.

Speaker 6: 22:08

You know the Rock and people like that, that's right Because it can be associated with masculinity and how a man is perceived as being a man. I would venture to say, before Michael Jordan really came on the scene, it wasn't really looked at as something favorable. Yeah, it wasn't cool, particularly in the case, like you said, when you're young. I had a friend he was 23, and he had the bozo going on.

Speaker 5: 22:32

Yeah.

Speaker 6: 22:33

And that was traumatic. Yeah, because during that period of time, that's when you're rocking your waves.

Speaker 3: 22:38

He said he had the bozo going on. I mean, you might even know what that is.

Speaker 1: 22:43

I was going to say what is a bozo?

Speaker 6: 22:44

Well, see, that's when you don't have anything up here at the top and you just have the hair around the sides, kind of like a cul-de-sac, almost a little bit.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Exactly. Yeah, a bozo is a clown. That's when you have your sunroof is fully open.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Oh my goodness.

Speaker 5: 22:58

Wow, that's a barber joke, yeah, but.

Speaker 6: 23:02

But yeah, it can be very traumatic because how people perceive you and, like you mentioned, now there are options but it really depends on the individual, on how they look at themselves Right, and also what type of field of employment they're in. It makes a difference too.

Speaker 3: 23:21

Command. Yeah Like what what job.

Speaker 6: 23:23

Well, take for instance news. Okay, You'll see newscasts, you don't? You rarely see any newscasters that are completely bald.

Speaker 3: 23:34

Yeah, and it's just the perception that they have. I never thought about that, yeah.

Speaker 6: 23:40

Yeah, and, like I said, nowadays it's becoming a little bit more accepted, but before it's it was really rough for individual, for men who were losing their hair. You said there are options. What options? Well, there are several different options. What you were speaking of is called a hair unit. They called it a toupee. It is.

Speaker 2: 23:59

That's what it is, you know, but to be politically correct.

Speaker 6: 24:05

But it actually looks better than what a toupee used to look like. Gotcha Back in the day a toupee looked like a toupee. You could look at them and tell they had something sitting on top of their head.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Let me ask you this Back in the day, right, did they have toupees for people of color?

Speaker 3: 24:25

Nah, not really, because I see some crazy.

Speaker 1: 24:28

You just went hand units.

Speaker 5: 24:31

Not really.

Speaker 6: 24:31

Not really. Not like they have today. I mean they had some, but, like I said, you could tell Right, you could tell it was something sitting on top of their head.

Speaker 3: 24:40

It didn't look natural at all.

Speaker 6: 24:41

It looked alive, yeah, but nowadays you could see someone with a brush fade or a brush, wave, cut and it could be a hair unit. You would never know the difference.

Speaker 3: 24:53

Yeah, I've seen those on social media. Man, they add all this stuff and then they shave it and they glue it and it looks amazing. I would never, but I'm like I can't I do it myself?

Speaker 6: 25:02

Oh my God. I had a client that flew all the way from England to have his done. I forgot what occupation he had, but you know it was important that he Doesn't it have to be maintained.

Speaker 3: 25:14

Yes, it did so. How often does he need to come back to you, or can he go to someone else on this point forward?

Speaker 6: 25:18

Well, usually if you find someone who knows how to do it correctly, you want to stick with that person.

Speaker 3: 25:22

And how often does a person have to come back?

Speaker 6: 25:24

Well, it depends on it's different methods. You have the inexpensive, where they just take braid hair, glue it to your scalp and then they cut it down and blend it. You know that will last you about a week.

Speaker 2: 25:36

Yeah, a week. Yeah, especially if you're working out, but that's usually yeah if you're sweating.

Speaker 6: 25:42

You can't get in the pool with it. You know You're like no, I can't swim Right, right, but that's usually if somebody has something like they're going on vacation or going somewhere where nobody really knows them. And you know they want to rock the brush fade or the brush cut Wow.

Speaker 6: 25:57

Then they can put that on. Then you have the other, where you actually have the unit. It's a hair unit on a thin like a plastic almost, but it's breathable and you shape it, you glue it onto the scalp. That usually lasts about three to four months. Again, it depends on the individual and what their lifestyle is.

Speaker 5: 26:17

Yeah.

Speaker 6: 26:17

And how they perceive, as Cedric was saying earlier, is how they perceive themselves. Yeah, then you have more non-invasive methods, such as the minoxidil, and this is like a drop that drops that you can put on your scalp and everything. You have really inexpensive ways, and these are often joked about the hair fibers. Yes, you know, you see where they do the hair fibers. Hey, I was going to talk on that.

Speaker 2: 26:41

A little powder. Yeah, it's little like fibers, you know you just put it on and then you put like a hole on it and you shape it. That works.

Speaker 3: 26:51

I mean, I have them on here, fibers right now, what? Yeah, you said, you got it on right now. Yeah, I got it on right now.

Speaker 6: 26:57

And see that goes to the professionalism of the particular barber who's doing it, because it's not supposed to be a whole head of hair, it's supposed to enhance what you already have. If you have areas that may be a little thinner than others, that's what you typically use your fibers for to fill those in the same.

Speaker 6: 27:15

You know we do it with beards and everything If you have areas that's not really full you use the fibers to kind of just fill that in, and it's not meant to last for a long period of time. If you got something going on or, you know, if you're trying to make it through the week, then that's when you use the fibers.

Speaker 1: 27:32

I got a question because, as you were talking, vino, you were talking about career, right? I just want to know if this statement is a myth or a fact. I've always heard people say don't go to a barber who is bald. That makes no sense trying to get your hair cut. Is that a myth? That a fact? Because I've heard that right and people will actually go by that.

Speaker 6: 27:54

No, that's a myth. That's a myth. I don't, I don't hear that.

Speaker 3: 27:57

The only thing that I hear that I believe is I'm not going to a fat physical trainer if you're out of shape. You can't tell me what to do because you're out of shape, right? People say don't what to do because, you're out of shape, right? People say don't go to a skinny chef. Maybe they're. They take care of their bodies. They eat a certain way, but they can still cook they have to.

Speaker 1: 28:12

You know what I mean so.

Speaker 3: 28:13

I've never heard that one don't go to a barber.

Speaker 1: 28:15

That was a thing I used to hear a lot like man you know if you have hair. The assumption is they don't know.

Speaker 6: 28:24

At one time they had hair. That's true, they may not have it now, but they had hair at one time.

Speaker 3: 28:31

So let me ask you this With all the options, why are some men, with all the money in the world, still struggling like KD and LeBron?

Speaker 6: 28:39

Like what's up with those dudes, man, because they look like they're trying but it's not working.

Speaker 3: 28:41

I'm like you have money.

Speaker 6: 28:42

I would be happy to kind of straighten it out, to take care of your kid and LeBron.

Speaker 3: 28:46

You know, if this ever gets to him, Just cut it down low man. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:51

I'm struggling with that right now. Yeah, Just a matter of it's not important. I'm going to be like you, Stephon, in a couple of months. I've been that way since.

Speaker 3: 29:01

Why do some men choose to keep the bozo on? There's only one option. You start to thin out, shave it, look uniform and it still goes to the barbershop. More white men do it than black men. We tend to shave and just give up on it and just say we're going to shave the whole thing off. But some men still keep it. It's gray, it's whatever. Why do some people choose to keep that?

Speaker 6: 29:19

at all.

Speaker 3: 29:26

It's like when you were saying you had the dreads, yeah, um, during the time that you had your dreads and you were thinning, you didn't want to let that go, yeah, but I could cover it because I could take one strand of hedge like I moved. Well, you know there was coverage, you have some guys, they try to do the no, there's nothing there.

Speaker 6: 29:38

It's ball and you just got that thing around they don't want to let it go, because they may not have the the self-confidence to just go completely bald. So they they still want to hold on to their perception, like, like we were saying, perception versus reality.

Speaker 3: 29:56

Yeah, it's interesting, because to me they look older it actually does and a lot of men.

Speaker 6: 30:01

If they decided to just completely go bald, they would actually look. It would look better. Women seem to prefer that, opposed to you walking around with the cul-de-sac yeah, right.

Speaker 3: 30:09

So confidence boosters, embracing your look and owning your presence. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Yeah, can I?

Speaker 2: 30:19

touch on that? Um, I don't need. In the marine corps, we had to get our haircuts every week before formation, but they didn't teach us a sense of style, so, so every time that I went out, I didn't have that confidence. I was wearing like military boots and and this jeans, and I was looking like oh, this is not my style, what I'm doing Right. So I get out of military and I'm going to bars and stuff like that and I'm not getting no replies from any women.

Speaker 3: 30:46

No, play no play at all.

Speaker 2: 30:48

Like what the hell is going on? I got all my you know, my boots and all this other stuff. Don't y'all see the boots?

Speaker 6: 30:53

Don't y'all see the?

Speaker 2: 30:54

boots. I've been in combat, right. Nah, that's not how it works. So, hey, I had to download this app called Pinterest. You know you can create your vision board and everything like that. So I started to put some pieces together and when I did that, it gave me a boost of confidence in my appearance. You know, self-grooming comes from going out and taking the time to have someone else do that for you. You know what I'm saying. It's like planning a wedding. You're not going to plan your own wedding, you're going to have someone else do it. You want to feel relaxed on your day. So, going back to adjusting to this new, different fashion for myself, I had to create my own fashion. I have a good physique. It's like yourself, stefan, you wear shirts because you have a nice physique, right. So that confidence helped me pave the way for my success in life. Like I feel good when I go into a meeting with some of my stakeholders and presenting information to them. They take me seriously.

Speaker 3: 31:57

Yeah, there's something to be said about that. Whenever I play sports it was like you look good, you feel good, you play good Even down, the way you put on that uniform, the way you put on those cleats right. It was always that way for me in sales. Most of the guys we weren't in my, our team for years we were in door-to-door. The most successful guys and girls in a team were the best looking ones. It wasn't the most skillful ones. They became skillful because of the habit of talking to different people, dealing with objections.

Speaker 3: 32:23

But initially, when a person knocks on your door, it's crazy what that will do. When you look good, when you look a certain way, that polo fits you right and you're in shape and things like that. And same thing for the women. You know, the best looking one made the most sales. It was just. It just never failed. It's unfair, but it is what it is. And plus, even when it wasn't the case, it's still to your point. Kelly gave you that boost of confidence. When you have that look, when you have that confidence, you leave your home a certain way.

Speaker 6: 32:54

You feel like you can walk on water, and I wanted to touch on that point as well.

Speaker 6: 32:58

That's one of the things, I think, that sets us apart here at the refinery. We are all experts in our field and we understand that it's important, as Cedric said at the very onset your image, how you perceive yourself. We can see what you may not see when it comes to your appearance, when it comes to your hair and you know we were joking earlier about the baldness and all that. But my job is if I have a client to come in he's not sure about his appearance, he's not sure about what looks right on him or how he's supposed to present himself to the public, my job as a professional is to show him, to give him the blueprint, more or less, as to what looks best on him and how he should be perceived, be it hair fibers, be it hair units, be it if he wants to just go completely bald. That's where my expertise comes in. And, like I mentioned, we were joking, but, all seriousness, how you feel about yourself is more important than what anybody else feels about you. It matters 100%.

Speaker 3: 33:57

So you guys have more of a consultative approach, exactly, and then you can go from there.

Speaker 6: 34:02

And I try to instruct my young men at least take care of your hair, shampoo it, condition it, you know, because some of these young men they don't even I don't think they've ever washed their hair. You know, all they want to do is do the sponge and keep it moving.

Speaker 1: 34:19

And honestly, just to be transparent, that was me and still sometimes I'm still working through it where my dad was always big on me getting a haircut right, making sure everything was clean growing up. It was don't have too much at the top, but no one ever really told me how do I actually take care of my scalp? It's just I'm just curious, where do you even start with young man when you're putting young black man? Because, like I, I remember I I've tried so many different products like, like the as I Am, and the Cantu.

Speaker 3: 34:47

Did you ever try a Soul Glow? Because?

Speaker 1: 34:48

that's where it's at. You've never heard of it.

Speaker 2: 34:51

You've never heard of Soul Glow.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Right, right, right. I caught on when he said that, but for real, where do you start with young men when figuring it out?

Speaker 6: 35:01

I will say this much and a lot of people don't understand. Products that are on the market are not specifically for us. Caucasian hair tends to be oily, so their products are designed to strip oil from the hair. Our hair is not oily, it's typically dry. That's why we have to put grease and moisturizers, and things in it and moisturizers and things in it.

Speaker 6: 35:23

So, when it comes to shampoos, things of that nature, try to go with brands that are designed for our hair, because what you wind up doing if you're using a particular shampoo and you're shampooing your hair and you're trying to figure out why are my scalp always dry, why is my hair always dry? Because it's stripping whatever oils that you have. It's stripping them out of your hair. I would advise going to beauty supply stores and purchasing, opposed to, let's say, going to Target or, you know, walmart, because they have a small section for us, but you know you have more variety if you go like to a beauty supply store and purchase your shampoos and things of that nature.

Speaker 1: 36:02

So what you're saying is I need to go and ask for SoGlo.

Speaker 2: 36:10

A hot commodity.

Speaker 3: 36:12

You said something earlier, vino. That's going to help me segue to this next part of the conversation here, and I want to talk about something that you would think would be second nature. You would think would be pretty straightforward, but it doesn't seem to be. I had a gentleman I was talking to a few weeks ago. He was saying how his ex-wife called him and said our son is not taking care of his body in terms of hygiene, and it was clear that he had never been shown how, and so he goes. You know, that's my bad as a dad.

Speaker 3: 36:41

We just assumed that at some point you just know how to do that. So what happens is when certain things are not imparted upon you, I think we grow up thinking that people just know how to do these things. Women will complain and go yeah, he's not the best at hygiene and things like that. Right now there's a trend going around the Internet. Every black person has rejected that trend, thank God. But it's a trend about how you only need, as humans, you know the way we evolve we only need to shower once every three days or shit like that.

Speaker 3: 37:10

Obviously we're like nah, bro, I'm not leaving the house, you know, until I shower. I'm not going to bed without you know, without taking a shower. What are your thoughts on personal hygiene from manicure, even the way we wear clothes? How offensive it is.

Speaker 6: 37:27

Do you put too much on? Do you know how to put it on? I'm glad you brought that up, because our neotechs probably would kill us if we didn't bring this up. Nail care for men. As you noticed when you come in, we have pedicure bowls. We offer nail care for men, manicures, pedicures. One of the myths that men have is that pedicures and manicures are for women only.

Speaker 3: 37:47

Yeah, make you soft.

Speaker 6: 37:48

Yeah, make you soft you know you're trying to be pretty and all that that concept derived from. In order for you to get your hands and feet done, you had to go to a female establishment. You got the nail polish and it's all pretty and pink and everything. So it makes you uncomfortable to be in that setting. But it's important that you do take care of your hands and feet just like you do any part of your body. That was the driving point when Cedric and I came up with this concept is to create an atmosphere where men feel comfortable taking care of their hands and feet. As one of our nail technicians, a friend, she always asked their clients how long have your feet been taking care of you? And once they get it done, you know they're like man. I should have did this a long time ago.

Speaker 6: 38:35

It's a wonderful experience and we have two very exceptional nail technicians that are part of our team here.

Speaker 3: 38:43

Awesome, yeah, even down to like wearing cologne. I could be wrong about this, but I believe it was invented in France and it was really to mask people not showering and taking care of themselves.

Speaker 5: 38:52

So it was just kind of covering themselves up with perfume.

Speaker 3: 38:55

And I was in an environment once where I remember this woman. She walked in the room and we went into the break room. She could have been gone 20 minutes. I would walk in and go, damn, was Jackie in here? And sure enough, jackie was in there because he was the most offensive. Not that it smelled bad, it was just too much of it. This is something my uncle showed me a long time ago.

Speaker 3: 39:13

Because I wear cologne and it's two spritzes. I get out of the shower, it's on my skin because it has to mix with body chemistry. A little bit on my wrist and I'm done. I put my clothes on. You're going to smell it if you're close to me, if you come in for a handshake, if you come in for a hug or something like that. If I'm in the elevator, you might be like, hey, that's a nice cologne, what is that? But I'm not going to walk through a hallway and every room can smell me. And if you're in the car with me all the way down the pants leg and I'm like, what are you doing? They're showering, yeah.

Speaker 6: 39:45

Yeah, it's supposed to act as an enhancement. Yeah, a lot of times, man tend to want to overdo it. Yeah, hey, I was like that myself.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Spray it all over you, spray it all over me, the expensive Creed cologne and stuff like that. But with Creed cologne.

Speaker 3: 40:09

You got to make that creed last too, and on top of that it is it is already strong. If you understand the way cologne works yes, it works differently on me than it will on you exactly you know, like my wife will smell something on me if you. I like the way that smells on you. It's not even my favorite cologne, but I like the way that smells on you it's different, which is why it?

Speaker 5: 40:23

goes on your skin exactly.

Speaker 1: 40:25

Yeah, just to even piggyback on what you shared about the hygiene piece for a young man, one of the things I've noticed, like when I have young guys come into the therapy space and like their parents are complaining this person's not showering. A couple things I've noticed sometimes is either you have the young man who is just feeling unmotivated in general there's a level of maybe I wouldn't say clinical depression, but they're just unmotivated. They don't really see what they're going to do with their life. There's no drive, right, so just they're not even trying, right.

Speaker 1: 40:52

I think in those times it's important to speak to that part of that young man. But I think the other piece of this they're not even being taught about the summertime. I'm waking up, eating some cereal and I'm jumping on my video game, Right, and this is high stimulation and so they're not really being taught how to slow down and work your way into the day by taking a shower, brushing your teeth, making sure you lotion your face, Right, Like. I think that's something that we have to start bringing back is because I remember I was growing up my dad would call me out on it and I have to go back and like go back and do this, go back, and so I think, just reteaching that with two young boys, of taking your time in the morning, the evenings, to make sure you do that because they move in too fast now you know, I can add to that too.

Speaker 2: 41:37

It's building up a habit, but also a ritual. I'm into, like the skincare thing. Have a good routine for yourself, because when you're stepping out that door or getting ready to take on the day, you want to be the best version of yourself. When you step out that door and coming back into your home, wash all that energy, bad energy, off. Watch all of that stuff that you, you know you went to maybe a networking event, or you know you went to work and it was just a lot of this negative stuff.

Speaker 2: 42:06

Watch all this stuff. You know, I never thought of it that way.

Speaker 3: 42:09

I was just like you watch like outside off of you, but even on a spiritual level yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3: 42:15

Cleanse yourself yeah, you know at the risk of sounding a little ignorant here, one of the worst massages I ever had in my life was I went and there was a couples massage and there was a Tony and some other name the two massage therapists. I don't want Tony, so I was clear on that. Well, it turned out that the other name that sounded like a woman's name was a dude, so I was really uncomfortable and it was like I was stiff the whole time and he was like relax. I was like stop talking to me, you know, and I say it sounds ignorant because I realized that was like relax. I was like stop talking to me like that, you know, and I say it sounds ignorant because I realize that it does. But I have not been able to overcome how uncomfortable I am with that or a man giving me a pedicure. It's just something intimate about it.

Speaker 5: 42:59

Right.

Speaker 3: 43:00

You know I'm thinking about a day to myself. Go to the gym early in the morning, I do my prayer, I do my prayer, I do my meditation. I come in into the men's refinery, I get all these services. I go to brunch, I go hit the golf course. That's the perfect day for me, right? It would ruin it if Jim was doing my feet. So what do you have going on here, is that?

Speaker 6: 43:18

something that you guys take into consideration? Yeah, well, we do facial massages me and another barber that we have here.

Speaker 3: 43:24

I'm cool with that, because you're washing the hair and you clean.

Speaker 6: 43:27

It's like you're still cutting my hair right and I'm cool with all that, but the feet we have two beautiful women that are part of our team and they do the feet and I understand to your point. That is something that's a little bit more intimate.

Speaker 3: 43:42

It feels intimate.

Speaker 6: 43:43

Yeah, it's just something about that and the same with you know, body massage myself. Personally, I prefer to have a woman you know, and that's, and I think that just goes to your preference yeah, you know it goes to your preference, it's, it's nothing wrong. If a man does a massage, he it's like a doctor. I prefer a female doctor. I just don't want, you know, man checking me like that you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 6: 44:08

yeah, that's just my preference. Yeah, um, and it depends on on the individual, so, uh, but we try to alleviate any, any uncomfortable feelings or anything so I'll be the it's, it's, it's immature, and I realize it.

Speaker 3: 44:21

You know, I know it, I'll be the odd one out.

Speaker 1: 44:25

I've actually gotten a couple's massage with a male therapist genuinely like one of the best massages I had and mine would have been perfect.

Speaker 3: 44:33

If only I could relax.

Speaker 1: 44:34

I just couldn't yeah, yeah, I'm curious like y'all think some of that is also a social norm. I used to think about the concept of like a barber's like touching up your face, getting behind the ears and stuff like that. I used used to be like man. That's pretty intimate as well, like you're up in my nose, you're up, you know, up under my chin. So do y'all think that's just more of something where, if that gets more normalized, it probably would go?

Speaker 3: 44:57

away. I think that's what it is. I think it's a social norm, like you said, because that's all I've ever known.

Speaker 5: 45:02

Male barber.

Speaker 3: 45:03

And if a woman is a barber, then great doesn't matter to me, right, my experience with the pedicure and manicure was you know in the regular Asian nail salon and the one thing that I found I would say disrespectful is them talking to one another in a different

Speaker 6: 45:21

language and I'm not sure if they're talking about my feet and the look back, the language, and I'm not sure if they're talking about my feet. I've heard that. Oh, yeah, they were talking about you. Yeah, they were talking about me. In case you didn't know, especially if anybody started laughing, right, yeah, yep, yep, but when?

Speaker 2: 45:34

I came here at the men's refinery right. I never went to no other nail technician. I have to get my feet done today. But her experience was like hey, we had a good conversation. She knows me that type of thing, and then she does a really good job. And she doesn't put like the polish on there she buff them to a point where they look I'm like wow, look at my.

Speaker 3: 45:58

And it lasts longer too. The polish starts to peel off. The buffing man lasts for weeks. That's where it's at For weeks. Yeah, high quality man, yeah high quality.

Speaker 6: 46:08

She also instructs you on the care of your hands and feet, because that's one of the things. If you go to some of the other establishment, they're not really interested in educating you on the care Right, what you need to do to maintain.

Speaker 5: 46:22

Correct.

Speaker 6: 46:23

It's just a matter of let me go and get you out this chair so I can get the next client.

Speaker 2: 46:27

It goes back to that consulting piece. Right, talk to your clients.

Speaker 3: 46:30

Talk to us about where people can find you, both physical location as well as social media website, etc.

Speaker 6: 46:37

Well, address is 948, suite C, railroad Street, conyers, and you can find us on facebook, at the refinery, and on instagram, the refinery underscore. You know, come check us out. I guarantee you, it's an experience like no other.

Speaker 3: 46:55

We pride ourselves and setting ourselves apart from any other establishment that is in this particular field just the look alone from you walking in, I can tell when I walked in I was like, yeah, this is dope as hell we're open from t Tuesday to Saturdays, from 10 o'clock to 7.

Speaker 6: 47:09

Fridays and Saturdays we open up at 9. Fantastic.

Speaker 3: 47:12

So traditionally, towards the end of every podcast that we do, we do something where one of the guests slash co-hosts has to read the outro notes doing an impersonation I'll take a stab at it.

Speaker 1: 47:30

I'll take a stab at it.

Speaker 3: 47:31

I'll take a stab at it yeah, all right, it's gonna be, uh, quentin. Yeah, so it's you, bro. And what are you? What are you doing? Who's?

Speaker 1: 47:39

impression I'm gonna be a straight up ghanian fresh off the motherland right here, fresh off the motherland, right here, fresh off the motherland.

Speaker 3: 47:45

All right, let's go for it, brother.

Speaker 1: 47:47

Please support us, please, please support us by following the show. Please follow the show and leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 5: 47:59

We don't want a four-star review.

Speaker 1: 48:01

We don't want a 4.5-star review. We don't even want a 4.9-star review. Five-star review on the podcast. If you don't even want A 4.9 star review, 5 star review On the podcast. If you don't do that, we'll find you. Thank you so much For listening. We'll catch you next week when we share Conversations surrounding Real issues we deal with Every day Manhood matters, manhood matters, it matters, it matters, and we're out.

Speaker 3: 48:25

Oh man, that was phenomenal. That was awesome. I enjoyed that one.

Speaker 5: 48:42

Hey everyone, I'm Eva Steph's youngest daughter. Just a quick reminder that this podcast is intended solely for entertainment and educational purposes. If you're struggling with anything, please contact a licensed therapist. As always, we are sending you our strength and our love. See you next Monday.